Help...I need to get my classic car back

[65fastback]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA
6 odd years ago, my friend stored my car for me while I was out of state. On a visit back, I added him to the title for resistration/insurance purploses in the second position(my name first, his second). I went up to Northern california to ge the car (I live in santa Cruz) and come to find out he used my car as collatoral for a personal loan from a private citizen. The guy had the car, pink slip unsigned, and does not want to give me the car back without the loan being paid off. I have paperwork stating the car was with my friend to be worked on and restored.
I have talked to the guy holding the car, but havent threatened going to the police yet, since I dont want to get him riled up...but now I want the car back NOW....

What can I do? If I call the police, the one thing I dont know is where exactly the car is...I know its at one of his properties in Blue Lake...

Whhat are my options??? HELP PLEASE...I need my 1965 fastback mustang back....Ive owned it for over 20 years....thanks

[Antigone*of*Greece]

Originally Posted by 65fastback

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA
6 odd years ago, my friend stored my car for me while I was out of state. On a visit back, I added him to the title for resistration/insurance purploses in the second position(my name first, his second). I went up to Northern california to ge the car (I live in santa Cruz) and come to find out he used my car as collatoral for a personal loan from a private citizen. The guy had the car, pink slip unsigned, and does not want to give me the car back without the loan being paid off. I have paperwork stating the car was with my friend to be worked on and restored.
I have talked to the guy holding the car, but havent threatened going to the police yet, since I dont want to get him riled up...but now I want the car back NOW....

What can I do? If I call the police, the one thing I dont know is where exactly the car is...I know its at one of his properties in Blue Lake...

Whhat are my options??? HELP PLEASE...I need my 1965 fastback mustang back....Ive owned it for over 20 years....thanks

You made the mistake of putting your friend on the title. He had every legal right to encumber the vehicle. My suggestion to you is to pay the person who now has your vehicle and sue your friend.

[dave33]

Yup, sounds like a civil matter at this point. Although I am not familiar with the double reg. laws in your sate. You can research it yourself or call and ask a detective. Does not look good.goodluck.

[CdwJava]

It is not stolen or embezzled, so it is likely a civil problem.

Question: Whose name is on the registration? This may be far more important than the name(s) on the title.

- Carl

[65fastback]

My name is on the registration...And when I put my buddy on the title, I made sure with the DMV that since its me/him on the title and not me OR him, that he could not sell the car. So Im thinking that I have solid ground to stand on....And I wold pay off the 5k to get the car back and sue my buddy, but I dont have the available cash.

Any thoughts on finding out where the car is, meeting the guy who has the car where it is and having the police show up? Since theres no signed pink, and im on the registration and title...wouldnt they make him release it to me? Just a thought. thanks for all the advise and help.

[CdwJava]

The police will generally not decide ownership of property. However, IF you can find out where it is or who has it, the police might be able to affirm the registration (assuming it has not been changed) and might be able to convince him to turn it over to you. But, keep in mind that he can always sue your co-owner and seek possession of the car as a result of the suit.

I suspect the police are not going to push the issue if the other guy is arguing it is a civil issue. It really depends on what the parties say. But, if it is registered to you, then he will have to seek possession some other way. The holder of the title is not necessarily the one who can possess the car unless recovered as a reult of impound or court order.

Keep in mind that the bank owns any car you buy on time. For the bank to get the car, even though they are the legal owner, they have to go through the legal repossession process. However, your problem is that the guy who had legal possession of it GAVE the car to this other guy. The contracts and possession of the pink slip are going to give the police a headache. You may have to sue both your friend and the guy who has the car to get it back - let the guy who has the car sue your friend for his money.,

Bottom line is, the cops might be able to help ... they might not.

- Carl

[outonbail]

You are not sitting in the best of positions here and frankly, it is your choice of friends which has you here.

Anyway, I’ll assume that your friend did actually borrow 5K from the person who is holding the car as collateral and that there is no hanky panky going on between your friend and the guy who has possession of the vehicle,
First, do you know if there was any written agreement or contract between your friend and the lender? If so, you should ask for a copy so you know the terms of this loan

Now I have to tell you that leaving your vehicle in another person‘s possession for six years, is not what a person does with a vehicle they don‘t want to lose. It does not take six years for someone to restore a vehicle. Additionally, during restoration, the vehicle will not be in drivable condition most of the time anyway.

I also don’t understand why you added this person to the title? You don’t have to add him to the title in order to keep it registered and insured, so what was the real reason?

It sounds like you may have made a deal with him to either make him half owner of the vehicle in exchange for his storing the vehicle and/or for his labor to repair/restore the car. Then you would share the profit when the car was sold. This would make your arrangement more of a business partnership and he would have every right to borrow money against the vehicle under that arrangement.

Do you know if he has been making the payments on the loan on time? If not, the lender can end up selling the vehicle to recoup his money and if he doesn’t get all his money back out of the car sale, your friend would still be on the hook for the remaining balance due on the loan.

I don’t see where you will have any legal recourse to gain full possession of the vehicle without paying off the 5K loan the guy who has your car is owed.

Depending on what your friend claims the agreement with you was, he may not be required to pay you back either.

This whole scenario sounds like one bad choice after another on your part.

The best you might get out of this mess, is a lesson in life, law and friendship.

You should also know that in the current economy you can find a lot of good deals on muscle cars. $5,000.00 can buy a lot of Mustang these days and unless you had a Shelby GT 500, the car probably isn’t worth 5K in today’s market anyway.

I can pick up a 69 fastback right now for $1,000.00. It runs good and the body is straight.

[Zigner]

Carl -

The OP is on the title AND the registration. His buddy isn't a "lienholder".

Furthermore, in California, if the word "AND" isn't present (ie: Bob Smith and Bill Jones), it's assumed to be "OR" (ie: Bob Smith or Bill Jones)

[65fastback]

Well, for someone I have trusted for 25yrs, I will admit, he IS doing me wrong in a big way. But his bad choices are indeed effecting me.

The car in storage at my parents house for 13yrs (registered non op in 1989), and due to a renovation, I had to move it. In 2002, my buddy (JP) offered to store it for me until I returned back from out of state. He has a tow service and auto repair shop and would store it at his grandmothers a coule blocks away. No problem....I made up a little statement we both signed stating that he could transport the car to his shop in Humboldt and start some restoration as well as store it for me(dated and signed by both parties). Fastforward a couple years....

Add JP to the title for resistration and insurance purposes only with him in second postion on the title. Fastforward a couple years...

So I come back to California, and head up to Humboldt to get the car and to my dismay, he states the car is in posession of another guy who PJ borrowed 10k from and used my car as well as another car for collateral. No signed over pink slip by PJ (or me for that matter) or contract as far as I know (since the payback was to be in 100s in cash(Its Humboldt after all)).

So I have talked with the car holder and told him I understood that he is owed money, but thats with PJ ...not me. I dont want to get heavy handed till I know what my options are. He seems somewhat reasonable, but wants the money before release. I told him why not lien PJs house or other holdings and get me out of the middle. THere was to be a meeting on thier minds.

I have talked with the car holder, have his address/phone etc and on my next trip up there, plan on going to see the car and finding out the address of where the car is (specific address)... I may pleed one more time to get me out of the middle and maybe get lucky. Hes got too many cars to want mine.

At that point, when I have the car holder and car at once place, wouldnt calling the police solve the issue since he(car holder) is not on the title or registration...both of which I am on. Seems like a slam dunk...Advise?

So if that doesnt work, get a lawyer and sue them both civilly? Would a general practice layer do? Im clueless.

[65fastback]

and if I remeber right, on the title it is me/PJ not and or or

As directed by DMV, that was the way to do it for both signatures required to sign for a sale or whatever...

I should get a copy of the title I guess...

[outonbail]

Originally Posted by Zigner

Carl -

The OP is on the title AND the registration. His buddy isn't a "lienholder".

The way I am reading it, the buddy must also be on the title and a registered owner as well, since he is saying that he added his buddy to the title and wanted him to be able to register and insure the vehicle. I think the OP is putting too much faith in the fact that his name is shown first, where I don't believe that means a hill of beans.

Furthermore, in California, if the word "AND" isn't present (ie: Bob Smith and Bill Jones), it's assumed to be "OR" (ie: Bob Smith or Bill Jones)

I agree, if there is no "and" between the names, then either party can borrow against or legally sell the vehicle. Since the car has been in the buddy's possession for the last six years, I'm betting that the DMV records will show only the buddies address in their records so if and when there is a lien filed on the vehicle, the OP wouldn't receive any notification. I could be wrong, but since he had so much trust in his friend, I'm guessing he trusted him enough to let him receive all mail from the DMV and any other notifications concerning the vehicle.

Also, if I were the lender, I would want the car in my possession or I would want a note signed by the buddy, in which he agrees to put his home up as collateral, before I would release the car. I would want something I could record as a lien against the property so I was guaranteed that eventually, I would see the return of my money, one way or the other. The car is what made this a secure loan for the lender, which was the only way he would agree to lending the money.
Now if the buddy has religiously made his payments on time for the entire first year and the loan is half paid off, then I might agree to keep one car and return one car. Since the OP is stating that the lender does not want to do this, I doubt the buddy has demonstrated a very good payment history.

Also, when I learned that the buddy is basically screwing his good friend who claims to be the true owner of the vehicle, by borrowing against it without informing the OP, I wouldn't trust the buddy not to try and screw me next.

The lender has done nothing wrong here. I don't believe the OP will have any legal recourse as far as the lender is concerned.

If I were the OP, the first thing i would do is request a copy of all the vehicle's registration information and ownership records, to see exactly who is the legal owner of the car in the DMV database.

Then see if his buddy is willing to sign another promissory note, secured by property the lender will find acceptable, so he will release the car.

[CdwJava]

Originally Posted by Zigner

Carl -

The OP is on the title AND the registration. His buddy isn't a "lienholder".

Furthermore, in California, if the word "AND" isn't present (ie: Bob Smith and Bill Jones), it's assumed to be "OR" (ie: Bob Smith or Bill Jones)

The police are not going to care about the "and"/"or" thing, only the title and the registration.

The title is the "legal owner" which could be the lienholder, but it could be someone else entirely. From the DMV:

"A legal owner is someone holding a security interest in a vehicle. Legal owner and lienholder are one and the same."

Being the registered owner is going to be more compelling than being in possession of the title. But, possession in this case can sometimes be 9/10 of the law ... but, if no title has been signed over to the guy holding the car, an argument can be made that the holder is in unlawful possession of the car. In CA people cannot hold property belonging to another in exchange for payment.

- Carl