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Petty Disorderly: Smoking In Public (New Jersey)

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ahawkins

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? New Jersey

I will brief you guys on some important information before you start posting advice.

New Jersey Penal Code § 2C:33-13 pertains to smoking in public. The maximum fine that can be issued is $200.

Code of the town of Secaucus, NJ § ch. 141-16(a) states that the maximum fine for the first infraction of smoking in public is $50

The town code can be found here:
ClerkBase - Secaucus, NJ

My friend and I were issued tickets for smoking in public at the Secaucus Junction Train Station in Secaucus, NJ. We were in violation of C.O. 141-5(a). Or, prohibition of smoking in public places accessable to the general public.

I've called the court, and asked what the cost of the fine was, even though I already knew - $185.00, due to another friend that was issued the same ticket.

Now, I have not entered a plea of not guilty, although I am thinking I will, but I am testing out my options before I decide to build a defense.

Can I contest the $185 charge being that it was my first infraction?
Does New Jersey Penal Law trump a New Jersey town code?
Is that even relevant considering the tickets we were issued were in violation of the town code and NOT the penal law?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Oh - also, can my friend and I both contest the ticket on the same grounds? Or as a party? Or do we have to do it individually before the judge, and use the same defense?

Thanks again!
 


HighwayMan

Super Secret Senior Member
Code of the town of Secaucus, NJ § ch. 141-16(a) states that the maximum fine for the first infraction of smoking in public is $50

My friend and I were issued tickets for smoking in public at the Secaucus Junction Train Station in Secaucus, NJ. We were in violation of C.O. 141-5(a). Or, prohibition of smoking in public places accessable to the general public.
So what is the relevance of 141-16(a)? You weren't cited for that.

Now, I have not entered a plea of not guilty, although I am thinking I will, but I am testing out my options before I decide to build a defense.
Really? And how are you testing your options? And what are your options as you see them? And what is your defense for smoking in a train station?

Can I contest the $185 charge being that it was my first infraction?
No. If that is the penalty for the offense then you are either guilty and pay the specified fine or you are found not guilty and pay nothing.

Does New Jersey Penal Law trump a New Jersey town code?
No. Where would you get that idea? It's a different statute. So what if the local statute duplicates a state statute? What's the relevance?

Is that even relevant considering the tickets we were issued were in violation of the town code and NOT the penal law?
No, it's not relevant.

Oh - also, can my friend and I both contest the ticket on the same grounds? Or as a party? Or do we have to do it individually before the judge, and use the same defense?
Two individuals were cited for each violating a law. Your actions had no relation to your friend's, other than you both happened to be violating the same law. You get two separate trials as individuals.
 

ahawkins

Junior Member
I appreciate your thourough and quick response, but I am left with soem questions..

So what is the relevance of 141-16(a)? You weren't cited for that.

I had assumed that since I was cited for a subsection of the same code, that the maximum fine associated with that code would take precedent. Does this mean that to be subject only to a maximum fine of $50, it would have to specifically state 141-16(a) on my ticket?


Really? And how are you testing your options? And what are your options as you see them? And what is your defense for smoking in a train station?

Well - I was planning on sending an informal request of discovery to the D.A., to produce documents showing the date of construction and placement of all "no smoking" signs on the platform, considering we were on the end, under the open sky, and no signs were visible (although there is one visible after this weekend). Also to produce documents saying the maximum distance allowed from each sign that is posted.


Two individuals were cited for each violating a law. Your actions had no relation to your friend's, other than you both happened to be violating the same law. You get two separate trials as individuals.

I suppose this was just me being optomistic.

So then, how can I find out what is the maximum fine associated with 141-5(a), if it isn't the maximum fine stated in the same code? Further, what does 141-16 even pertain to, if it isn't violations of the same subsection?
 

FlyingRon

Senior Member
I appreciate your thourough and quick response, but I am left with soem questions..

So what is the relevance of 141-16(a)? You weren't cited for that.

I had assumed that since I was cited for a subsection of the same code, that the maximum fine associated with that code would take precedent. Does this mean that to be subject only to a maximum fine of $50, it would have to specifically state 141-16(a) on my ticket?
You apparently weren't. The issue is not this code. It's whether you are guilty of what you are charged with. If a trial is allowed on this, then it's possible the charge can be amended up until the trial starts.

Well - I was planning on sending an informal request of discovery to the D.A., to produce documents showing the date of construction and placement of all "no smoking" signs on the platform,
What makes you think that such signage is required?
Further, even if signage were, discovery is used to get evidence that the prosecution intends to use against you not for any request for information you choose to have investigated.
 
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ahawkins

Junior Member
You apparently weren't. The issue is not this code. It's whether you are guilty of what you are charged with. If a trial is allowed on this, then it's possible the charge can be amended up until the trial starts.


What makes you think that such signage is required?
Further, even if signage were, discovery is used to get evidence that the prosecution intends to use against you not for any request for information you choose to have investigated.
Who do I inform to propose that the ticket should be ammended?

My point in making the original post, was to find out if this is grounds to plea not guilty and have the ticket reduced or discarded (due to the amount of the ticket being greater then allowed). If this is possible, do I need to wait until the court date and state it to the judge? Or are their means to notify the court in advance..

I am aware of the laws of discovery, and that either the defense or prosecution can file a petition for a motion to recover documents that may support their case or discredit the opposing. As mentioned, I was going to file an informal request and see if the DA would refuse, in which case I would of filed a petition. Unfortunately my day job does not permit me all the time that would be involved in this process, so I will most likely no longer consider this as an option.
 

ahawkins

Junior Member
Just to make my point even clearer, here is what I was cited with and is writen on my ticket:

§ 141-5. Prohibition of smoking in places accessible to the general public.
Smoking shall be prohibited in the following public places and other public places similarly situated, including, but not limited to, the following areas:

A. All enclosed areas available to and customarily used by the general public and all areas of business establishments generally accessible to the public, including, but not limited to, the public area of retail stores, banks, movie theatres, and other offices or workplaces.

Here is the section in question from the same article:

§ 141-16. Penalties.
Any person who violates any provision of this chapter shall be subject to a citation and;

A. Upon the first violation shall be guilty of an infraction and, upon conviction, shall be subject to a fine not to exceed fifty dollars ($50.);

Now, if that isn't as clear as day, I don't know what is.

Appreciate the responses!
 

HighwayMan

Super Secret Senior Member
I had assumed that since I was cited for a subsection of the same code, that the maximum fine associated with that code would take precedent. Does this mean that to be subject only to a maximum fine of $50, it would have to specifically state 141-16(a) on my ticket?
That information may not necessarily be in the same section of the statutes. There could be a section somewhere else to the effect that "oh by the way, a violation of section xx-xx is punishable by a fine not to exceed $x". You sometimes have to read more than the specific sections involved.

I have seen much stranger things. I am sorry, but I have have neither the inclination nor the time right now to read through the town ordinances of Secaucus.

Well - I was planning on sending an informal request of discovery to the D.A., to produce documents showing the date of construction and placement of all "no smoking" signs on the platform, considering we were on the end, under the open sky, and no signs were visible (although there is one visible after this weekend). Also to produce documents saying the maximum distance allowed from each sign that is posted.
Signs are not always necessary. As I often point out to people, there cannot be signs posted for every possible violation or infraction. Very often signs are posted as a courtesy and are not required.
 

FlyingRon

Senior Member
Who do I inform to propose that the ticket should be ammended?
Whoever is prosecuting the case.
My point in making the original post, was to find out if this is grounds to plea not guilty and have the ticket reduced or discarded (due to the amount of the ticket being greater then allowed).
You might get it dropped to $50 if this is indeed your first offense, but don't forget that they frequently add costs (don't know about Secaucus but I guarantee if you got that ticket in Pennsylvania the costs would be three times what the base fine would be.

I am aware of the laws of discovery, and that either the defense or prosecution can file a petition for a motion to recover documents that may support their case or discredit the opposing. As mentioned, I was going to file an informal request and see if the DA would refuse, in which case I would of filed a petition.
But the signage isn't an issue. You are guilty of violating the ordinance regardless of the signage. If the statute said "No smoking where posted" you could argue this, but it says no smoking in public and then lists some "included but not limited to" areas that include "waiting areas."

And if the DA refused, what sort of petition would you file?
 
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