Is There A Crime Here?

[unclebuck1]

What is the name of your state?OREGON

IS THERE A CRIME HERE?

A 10 acre piece of riverfront property is owned through a trust by 2 people. The trust agreement on the property states as follows: "trustee and trustor shall share equally in any benefit or income from the above described real property or in the proceeds from any sale of said property". The part that says "income from" would mean sale of timber, cordwood, sand, gravel, boulders, top soil or anything of value that was on the land.

Trustee had a contractor clear about 5 acres or 1/2 of the land (remove brush and fallen trees etc.) and build a boat ramp on the riverbank. Along this riverbank is an old levee made-up of very large boulders. The kind you now see used in landscaping etc. I consider these boulders an asset as they retail in the neighborhood of $300 to $500 each when used in landscaping.

These boulders were not necessary to remove to build the boat ramp. No accounting has been given as to what happened to the boulders (approx. 850,000 lbs.). I don't know if they were sold or given away.

If they were sold then the trustee owes the trustor 1/2 the sale price. If they were given away, that's another matter. The trustee can give away his 1/2, but not the 1/2 belonging to the trustor.

Can I prosecute for theft or whatever?

[seniorjudge]

Originally Posted by unclebuck1

What is the name of your state?OREGON

IS THERE A CRIME HERE?

A 10 acre piece of riverfront property is owned through a trust by 2 people. The trust agreement on the property states as follows: "trustee and trustor shall share equally in any benefit or income from the above described real property or in the proceeds from any sale of said property". The part that says "income from" would mean sale of timber, cordwood, sand, gravel, boulders, top soil or anything of value that was on the land.

Trustee had a contractor clear about 5 acres or 1/2 of the land (remove brush and fallen trees etc.) and build a boat ramp on the riverbank. Along this riverbank is an old levee made-up of very large boulders. The kind you now see used in landscaping etc. I consider these boulders an asset as they retail in the neighborhood of $300 to $500 each when used in landscaping.

These boulders were not necessary to remove to build the boat ramp. No accounting has been given as to what happened to the boulders (approx. 850,000 lbs.). I don't know if they were sold or given away.

If they were sold then the trustee owes the trustor 1/2 the sale price. If they were given away, that's another matter. The trustee can give away his 1/2, but not the 1/2 belonging to the trustor.

Can I prosecute for theft or whatever?

Q: Can I prosecute for theft or whatever?

A: A prosecutor will most likely tell you that this is strictly a civil matter. I am not even sure if it is illegal to steal worthless rocks.

[unclebuck1]

You are probably right judge, it may be a civil matter.... As to the resources being "worthless rocks", depends who ownes it.... Get cought going into a national park and rip-off tons of it and see what happens.... I dare say the government wouldn't think they were "worthless rocks".... Or try South Africas diamond mines. Just depends on who ownes it.... Even if you're the trustee (steward) it's not right.

[seniorjudge]

Originally Posted by unclebuck1

You are probably right judge, it may be a civil matter.... As to the resources being "worthless rocks", depends who ownes it.... Get cought going into a national park and rip-off tons of it and see what happens.... I dare say the government wouldn't think they were "worthless rocks".... Or try South Africas diamond mines. Just depends on who ownes it.... Even if you're the trustee (steward) it's not right.

That's why I said "worthless rocks".

Rocks in a national park or SA diamonds are not "worhtless rocks".

But, hey, I've seen people buy limestone boulders in the Ozarks. Beats me why anyone would do such a thing, but there you have it.

[CdwJava]

I would think it would be civil. The rocks by themselves would likely have no value. Their placement on the property might well have a resale or commercial value if the property were to be developed.

If you want to sue the other person for something you will need to get something in writing articulating the damage (i.e. the loss of value of the property due to the removal of the rocks), or show that some contract was violated in removing the rocks.

I can't imagine the police taking a report on this at all. Though I can imagine that any officer called to the scene would have a great locker room story to tell for a while about, "The Case of the Missing Rocks!"

Talk to an attorney but don't expect much.

- Carl

[stephenk]

"The part that says "income from" would mean sale of timber, cordwood, sand, gravel, boulders, top soil or anything of value that was on the land."

Is that stated in the written contract?

[Ohiogal]

I think this was a question on one of my law school exams.

[HomeGuru]

Originally Posted by Ohiogal

I think this was a question on one of my law school exams.

**A: so are you saying that this thread is homework?

[Ohiogal]

Originally Posted by HomeGuru

**A: so are you saying that this thread is homework?

Am I 100% certain about that? No. But it sure as heck sounds like those tortuous problems we would be given to figure out for class discussion the following week. If it isn't homework then the OP has a problem that many of my former professors would love to use as such.

[HomeGuru]

Originally Posted by Ohiogal

Am I 100% certain about that? No. But it sure as heck sounds like those tortuous problems we would be given to figure out for class discussion the following week. If it isn't homework then the OP has a problem that many of my former professors would love to use as such.

**A: I agree. Now I get paid to do homework.