Tresspass to enter public govt. office?

[gerardrj]

What is the name of your state? Arizona, City of Mesa

The quick background:

There is an office building owned and operated by the city government. It is used as the work offices for many departments to which the public regularly needs, wants or should have access: city clerk, city manager, mayor, local TV station, accounting, community revitalization, etc. The offices are mostly all configured for public access with transaction windows or small lobby areas.

The city has implemented an unwritten requirement that a person must show a photo I.D. to the desk clerk to enter the building. There is no law that requires this, it's just a policy created by the city manager without consent of the city council.

I was refused access to a city office because I refused to provide a photo I.D. I at later dates entered the building either undetected by the "guards", or by ignoring their request for I.D. and entering anyway. Each time I entered the building was for a legitimate purpose of interacting with a city office.

The city attorney has told me that if I enter the building again, I will be arrested and charged with trespassing under the state law:

13-1502. Criminal trespass in the third degree; classification
A. A person commits criminal trespass in the third degree by:
1. Knowingly entering or remaining unlawfully on any real property after a reasonable request to leave by the owner or any other person having lawful control over such property, or reasonable notice prohibiting entry.


My question, is am I really remaining unlawfully when I am there for a lawful purpose? In the times that I was in the building to date without showing I.D. I was never asked to leave the building, only asked for I.D.

This situation is further clouded by the question of public property being involved and who would be considered "...the owner or any other person having lawful control over such property..."? Certainly as a tax paying long time citizen of the city I must legally be considered, at least in the most minute sense, an owner since the government is the people in this country.

I am want to press this issue as I think this policy is just wrong and flies in the face of the freedoms we stand for in this country.

I'm looking for advice as to what people think about being convicted under the trespass statute given the circumstances above.

Here's links to the governing statutes and ordinances:
http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ArizonaRevisedStatutes.asp?Title=13
http://cityofmesa.org/clerk/CodeBook/TOC_web.asp

 

[enjay]

So you think you can just bust into any public building and disregard their policies because you pay taxes?

 

[gerardrj]

So you think you can just bust into any public building and disregard their policies because you pay taxes?

I'm not talking about "busting" anywhere. These offices are designed and laid out for public access. I'm not talking about a publicly owned building that is used for essentially private functions, like government owned housing, and I'm not talking about entering any area that is designated for employees only.

The restriction I am talking about is roughly equivalent to being required to show a photo I.D. to enter your public library or a public park.

 

[CdwJava]

Then use the alternative - contact via telephone, fax, or e-mail. That way you do not HAVE to show ID.

Try to get in to a state government office area (outside the lobby or common areas) in CA without ID! ANd sometimes even WITH ID you will be refused entry.

Being a taxpayer, and there on legitimate business does not mean that the agency that runs the office has to allow the constituents unlimited access.

And you have another means to vent your anger - the city council! Bring it up at public meetings. If they choose to change the policy, then the policy will change. But if you are the only person who is upset by this policy, then you are probably going to be out of luck.

Carl

 

[mrtoledo]

What is the problem which showing them your ID? Are you a wanted fellon?

 

[TomHartmann]

What is the problem which showing them your ID? Are you a wanted fellon?

There are two reasons that I can see: (1) Your answer is correct that he could be a wanted felon which is the reason why he doesn't want to show his I.D.. (2) The other possible answer is that he is just being rebelling against the government to make him showing his I.D..

 

[gerardrj]

And you have another means to vent your anger - the city council! Bring it up at public meetings. If they choose to change the policy, then the policy will change. But if you are the only person who is upset by this policy, then you are probably going to be out of luck.
Carl

That's where I'm headed. I'm also trying to figure out what agency enforces laws when a member of government violates them. I've so far found that the mayor is doing everything he can to ignore this, which is itself a violation of his duties.

The policy in question was created by the city manger, not the council. The city code specifically states "The Manager shall not exercise any policy-making or legislative functions."

 

[gerardrj]

What is the problem which showing them your ID? Are you a wanted fellon?

No I'm not a felon, I just believe in the rule of law.

Article [IV.]
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated.

I should not have to surrender any paperwork to the government except under probable cause. Since there is no reasonable suspicion that I will commit a crime on the premises, there is no grounds for me to submit to any search of any kind.

Article [IX.]

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people

Which means that I should, by default, have the right to access my government.

 

[CdwJava]

No, the agency or government entity has a right to control access to the facility. You do not have a right to unfettered access. And so long as the rules are not unlawful and not arbitrarily enforced, I would say that the rule requiring you to present ID when entering is likely to be lawful.

And I doubt that the city manager violated the municipal code when he established this rule for the building. There ARE things that department heads and city officals can do without the approval of the city council.

I suspect you shall find out your answer at said city council meeting. But, if they decline to change the policy (and I suspect that at the first meeting when/if you bring it up they will not be able to take action any way ... it has to be scheduled for a later meeting for a vote), what are you going to do then? Get an attorney and sue? On what grounds?

Your access is not being denied ... you are just being asked to present ID when you enter. It is done in many government facilities of different kinds throughout the country and is perfectly lawful everywhere else ... why wouldn't it be in Mesa, AZ?

Carl