Two 18 yr old males arrested for shoplifting, seeking information

[LadyLurker]

State of residence - Alabama
State crime committed - Alabama


Let me explain that these young men are not looking for a way out or for some way to be let off.
Both see the errors of their ways (typical, hmmm?) and want to make right what they have done wrong by accepting this like responsible adults.

After attempting to use the incompetent search engines of today, it became obvious that this forum is about the only place where real information can be obtain.

Not sure what all you need to give thorough consideration to this so will just type up all I know. If there is anything you feel is missing then please let me know and I will try to find out for you.

Both 18
First offense for both.
Both charged with "Theft of property 3rd degree".
Video evidence
#1: Had approx $40 of items found on him when searced, didn't remove hands from pockets when approached, handcuffed
#2: On video he lifed items, they were not found on him, not handcuffed.
Banned from all Wal-Marts (something on this later)
$500 bail set, bond paid.
Court date set for next month and no way either mother is going to let them miss it. They are thoroughly disgusted by the fact they both had enough money to actually pay for these items and still went and did something so utterly stupid.

Both were searched and questions. Neither were informed of their rights nor was legal representation present. I'd like to point out that this is not some loophole they are eagerly looking at but a concern. (question pertaining to this is later)

Both tried the "Let's lie our way out of this, they'll buy it!" typical route, by trying to claim they bought the items at a K-Mart.
Mother of one of the young men was in store shopping and called to lobby. Informed in public lobby of events and her car keys returned to her. Asked by staff and police of stores resently visited, she answered honestly.

Questions: (I know the first one may answer all, but if you've a few minutes to waste then feel free to give any advice you can)

A: Other than a lawyer, can they call the court house to get these answers? And if yes, who would they speak to?
B: Should they get a lawyer?
C: What is the basic range of fines, time, etc... if they plead guilty and not waste the court's time?
D: Could they pay a fine now and not have to go to court since they are pleading guilty?
E: Would they be on a probation, house arrest, etc...?
F: How would this be listed on their record? Misdomeaner, felony, etc...?
G: #1 has a job, is he obligated to inform his employer of this? Should he if he is not?
H: #2 just graduated and looking for a job. He understands there are areas on applications that ask if arrested or convicted of a crime. How should he fill out that portion at this time and best way to fill it out after court date?
I: They were told they were banned from all Wal-Marts. Huh? This was not exactly clear. ALL Wal-marts, nation wide? Forever? And how would this be enforced?
J: Miranda Rights being overlooked - As I said, not looking for a loophole, but should someone be informed of the arresting officer's lack in basic protocal so some murderer doesn't get off on a technicality later on? If yes, who outside of the "good ol' boys" network in this town should be contacted about this?

Thank you for your time.

 

[Happy Trails]

State of residence - Alabama
State crime committed - Alabama


Let me explain that these young men are not looking for a way out or for some way to be let off.
Both see the errors of their ways (typical, hmmm?) and want to make right what they have done wrong by accepting this like responsible adults.

After attempting to use the incompetent search engines of today, it became obvious that this forum is about the only place where real information can be obtain.

Not sure what all you need to give thorough consideration to this so will just type up all I know. If there is anything you feel is missing then please let me know and I will try to find out for you.

Both 18
First offense for both.
Both charged with "Theft of property 3rd degree".
Video evidence
#1: Had approx $40 of items found on him when searced, didn't remove hands from pockets when approached, handcuffed
#2: On video he lifed items, they were not found on him, not handcuffed.
Banned from all Wal-Marts (something on this later)
$500 bail set, bond paid.
Court date set for next month and no way either mother is going to let them miss it. They are thoroughly disgusted by the fact they both had enough money to actually pay for these items and still went and did something so utterly stupid.

Both were searched and questions. Neither were informed of their rights nor was legal representation present. I'd like to point out that this is not some loophole they are eagerly looking at but a concern. (question pertaining to this is later)

Both tried the "Let's lie our way out of this, they'll buy it!" typical route, by trying to claim they bought the items at a K-Mart.
Mother of one of the young men was in store shopping and called to lobby. Informed in public lobby of events and her car keys returned to her. Asked by staff and police of stores resently visited, she answered honestly.

Questions: (I know the first one may answer all, but if you've a few minutes to waste then feel free to give any advice you can)

A: Other than a lawyer, can they call the court house to get these answers? And if yes, who would they speak to?
B: Should they get a lawyer?
C: What is the basic range of fines, time, etc... if they plead guilty and not waste the court's time?
D: Could they pay a fine now and not have to go to court since they are pleading guilty?
E: Would they be on a probation, house arrest, etc...?
F: How would this be listed on their record? Misdomeaner, felony, etc...?
G: #1 has a job, is he obligated to inform his employer of this? Should he if he is not?
H: #2 just graduated and looking for a job. He understands there are areas on applications that ask if arrested or convicted of a crime. How should he fill out that portion at this time and best way to fill it out after court date?
I: They were told they were banned from all Wal-Marts. Huh? This was not exactly clear. ALL Wal-marts, nation wide? Forever? And how would this be enforced?
J: Miranda Rights being overlooked - As I said, not looking for a loophole, but should someone be informed of the arresting officer's lack in basic protocal so some murderer doesn't get off on a technicality later on? If yes, who outside of the "good ol' boys" network in this town should be contacted about this?

Thank you for your time.

I found this site: http://www.legislature.state.al.us/CodeofAlabama/1975/coatoc.htm

If you had the exact code violation it would make it a lot easier.

 

[LadyLurker]

Thank you for replying.

They received a paper with the location of court, date and time to attend, and a "Alabama Statue" print out.
§6-5-271 is at the top of the paper.
Is that the code?
If not, then how would they obtain the code on their file?

 

[racer72]

A. Court clerks are busy folks, answering phone calls all day would take away from their job. Till a court date is set, there is really nothing for them to look at anyway.

B. Highly recommended.

C. $0 to $5000, 1 year in jail. It will be up to the judge as to an appropriate sentence.

D. Depends on the local statutes, a local attorney would be required to answer that question. Based on your second post, attendance is mandatory.

E. It will be up to the judge, probation is likely, house arrest very unlikely.

F. Misdemeanor arrest and conviction.

G. Depends on what his job is.

H. He will have to answer yes.

I. Yes, it means all Wal-Marts. If caught, they will be arrested for trespassing. All Wal-Marts are tied together with an internal security network. The odds of getting caught is slim but it does happen.

J. You watch too much TV. Miranda rights are only required to be read prior to questioning after an arrest. You can be questioned repeatedly prior to being arrested. You can be arrested and locked up without being read your rights. As a citizen of the US, it is your responsibility to know your basic civil rights, it is not a police officer's job.

Something you did not mention but will happen, Wal-Mart is going to also levy a civil fine for the 5 finger discount too. In Alabama this is up to $200 plus the cost of the stolen merchandise. This will be on top of any court imposed fines and fees too.

Section 6-5-271
Liability for theft or attempted theft; liability of parents of unemancipated minor; liability for defrauding an eating establishment; liability of foster home.
(a) An adult or emancipated minor who commits or attempts to commit a theft of property consisting of goods for sale on the premises of a merchant in violation of Sections 13A-8-3, 13A-8-4, or 13A-8-5, shall be civilly liable to the merchant in an amount consisting of all of the following:

(1) The full retail value of the merchandise if not recovered in merchantable condition at its full retail price.

(2) Expenses for recovery of the merchandise in the amount of $200.

(3) Reasonable attorney's fees and court costs not to exceed $1000.

(b) Parents or legal guardians of an unemancipated minor under the age of 19 shall be liable in a civil action for the minor who commits or attempts to commit a theft of property consisting of goods for sale on the premises of a merchant in violation of Sections 13A-8-3, 13A-8-4, or 13A-8-5, to the merchant in an amount consisting of all of the following:

(1) The full retail value of the merchandise if not recovered in merchantable condition at its full retail price.

(2) Expenses for recovery of the merchandise in the amount of $200.

(3) Reasonable attorney's fees and court costs not to exceed $1000.

(4) Parents or legal guardians of an unemancipated minor under the age of 19 shall only be liable in a civil action in any calender year for up to three offenses under the provisions of this article with a maximum liability of $750 for each offense.

(c) A customer who orders a meal in a restaurant or other eating establishment, receives at least a portion thereof, and then leaves with the intent to defraud the eating establishment, without paying for the meal is subject to liability under this section, if such meal is received by the customer in a good and merchantable condition.

(d) Persons operating a certified foster home are not liable under this section for the acts of children not related to them by blood or marriage who are under their care, nor shall parents or legal guardians whose child is not living with them or where the juvenile violates Sections 13A-8-3, 13A-8-4 or 13A-8-5, with the intent to make the parent or legal guardian liable, be held liable under this article.

 

[Happy Trails]

Thank you for replying.

They received a paper with the location of court, date and time to attend, and a "Alabama Statue" print out.
§6-5-271 is at the top of the paper.
Is that the code?
If not, then how would they obtain the code on their file?

Yes, that's the code.

(edit--racer72 provided info.)

Section 13A-8-5
Theft of property in the third degree.
(a) The theft of property which does not exceed five hundred dollars ($500) in value and which is not taken from the person of another constitutes theft of property in the third degree.

(b) Theft of property in the third degree is a Class A misdemeanor


*************
Section 13A-5-7
Sentences of imprisonment for misdemeanors and violations.
(a) Sentences for misdemeanors shall be a definite term of imprisonment in the county jail or to hard labor for the county, within the following limitations:

(1) For a Class A misdemeanor, not more than one year.

(2) For a Class B misdemeanor, not more than six months.

(3) For a Class C misdemeanor, not more than three months.

(b) Sentences for violations shall be for a definite term of imprisonment in the county jail, not to exceed 30 days.


************************
Section 13A-5-12
Fines for misdemeanors and violations.
(a) A sentence to pay a fine for a misdemeanor shall be for a definite amount, fixed by the court, within the following limitations:

(1) For a Class A misdemeanor, not more than $2,000.00;

(2) For a Class B misdemeanor, not more than $1,000.00;

(3) For a Class C misdemeanor, not more than $500.00; or

(4) Any amount not exceeding double the pecuniary gain to the defendant or loss to the victim caused by the commission of the offense.

(b) A sentence to pay a fine for a violation shall be for a definite amount, fixed by the court, not to exceed $200.00, or any amount not exceeding double the pecuniary gain to the defendant or loss to the victim caused by the commission of the offense.

(c) As used in this section, "gain" means the amount of money or the value of property derived from the commission of the crime, less the amount of money or the value of property returned to the victim of the crime or seized or surrendered to lawful authority prior to the time sentence is imposed. "Value" shall be determined by the standards established in subdivision (14) of Section 13A-8-1.

(d) The court may conduct a hearing upon the issue of defendant's gain or the victim's loss from the crime according to procedures established by rule of court.

**I agree with Racer72, if it were me, I would hire an attorney.

 

[LadyLurker]

A: You clearly missed the part where I wrote there was a court date set.
G: Stockboy at a store, obviously not Wal-Mart
H: I believe F answered this question more fully.
J: Actually I don't watch too much tv and have avoided most of the police type shows since the late 80's. I was taught if you are arrested then the police officer (not only to inform you of your rights so there is absolutely no little misunderstandings later in a trial, but protect his backside) is supposed to inform you of your rights.
When did that change?

Thank you for your time Happy Trails
You are extremely helpful and polite.
I appreciate the time you have spent in giving me the information I can pass onto others.