when is it legal to use self defense and how much is allowed?

[Rhewyn]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

 

[CdwJava]

The "preview post" button seems to eat people's posts. I suggest you write out your question and the circumstances behind it and then simply hit "submit reply." Be sure to include the name of your state in your posting.

Also, if this is a hypothetical on when is it okay to use force to defend yourself, understand that many respondents here dislike dealing with hypotheticals as there are too many variables to make an informative guess.

In anticipation of a vague query, the general answer will be that the amount of force to be used in defense of yourself or another must be "reasonable," and that a determination of "self defense" is an affirmative defense that must generally be asserted by the defense in a criminal matter. But, the specifics vary by state and each situation must be viewed upon its own set of facts. In other words, it is unlikely that anyone will be able to give you a black & white answer to what can be a very complex question requiring the examination of all the facts and perceptions.

 

[AlmostALawyer]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

What state do you reside in? Generally, you may use force to protect yourself or others from injury. The amount of force permitted is "reasonable force." Thus, if someone punched you, punching the person back in self-defense is probably reasonable. However, shooting them or hitting them with a baseball bat would probably not be reasonable. Deadly force is only permissible in self-defense of yourself or others when you reasonably believe that your life (or the life of another) is in imminent danger of death or serious bodily injury.

 

[Rhewyn]

State: Montana

I one of the jobs that I currently hold is a bouncer/doorman. My job duties are to check ID's, help clean up, and help send people home safely. The part of the bar that I work in is all karaoke and is connected to another bar that owns the karaoke bar. The other bar is a country music bar and that is where all the fights happen. Tonight I had just clocked out when I was heading to my car I saw one of the female bartenders being harassed by a very inebriated man. I went over to help and she was able to get to her car without any trouble. The man was quite angry and was insisting on driving even though he could not speak straight. While I was on the steps to the bar trying to get him to calm down so I could find his address and call a cab for him he ran up behind me and held the top of my head while he gripped my throat. I was able to turn out of his grip but he followed me after I walked quickly away. I was finally able to get away from him and call the police but he had already gotten into his car and drove away.

At what point may I use self defense and how much can I use? If I use a stun gun am I in the wrong or can I use it? If I "Lay him out" am I in the wrong? I googled these but just cam up short. Any help would be appreciated because I know I will have to deal with people like this again.

 

[Rhewyn]

The "preview post" button seems to eat people's posts. I suggest you write out your question and the circumstances behind it and then simply hit "submit reply." Be sure to include the name of your state in your posting.

Also, if this is a hypothetical on when is it okay to use force to defend yourself, understand that many respondents here dislike dealing with hypotheticals as there are too many variables to make an informative guess.

In anticipation of a vague query, the general answer will be that the amount of force to be used in defense of yourself or another must be "reasonable," and that a determination of "self defense" is an affirmative defense that must generally be asserted by the defense in a criminal matter. But, the specifics vary by state and each situation must be viewed upon its own set of facts. In other words, it is unlikely that anyone will be able to give you a black & white answer to what can be a very complex question requiring the examination of all the facts and perceptions.

I have tried to do this in the past but whenever I make a new thread the text box for the actual info never shows up. just the title text box. also preview post was never there. there were 2 submit thread buttons and that was all.

 

[CdwJava]

The key will always be what is "reasonable."

Here is the law:

http://law.justia.com/codes/montana/2013/title-45/chapter-3/part-1/

 

[commentator]

A word I'm sure you already know or will soon discover in this line of work. It takes a great deal more to deal with or "lay out" or restrain someone who is extremely intoxicated. In fact, they're quite dangerous to deal with physically, because they're very benumbed, and a lot of quick hold breakers and pain control moves won't work with a very intoxicated person.

They may feel it the next day, have the physical damage to show for it, but they won't notice at the time. Be extremely careful that you don't try to use reasonable or equal force when dealing with someone like this, and either get yourself seriously hurt or end up seriously injuring someone. In fact, it's sort of like jumping into the water with a drowning person. The more distance you can keep between the two of you, the more conflict and actual physical contact you can avoid, the better.

 

[TigerD]

State: Montana

I one of the jobs that I currently hold is a bouncer/doorman. My job duties are to check ID's, help clean up, and help send people home safely. The part of the bar that I work in is all karaoke and is connected to another bar that owns the karaoke bar. The other bar is a country music bar and that is where all the fights happen. Tonight I had just clocked out when I was heading to my car I saw one of the female bartenders being harassed by a very inebriated man. I went over to help and she was able to get to her car without any trouble. The man was quite angry and was insisting on driving even though he could not speak straight. While I was on the steps to the bar trying to get him to calm down so I could find his address and call a cab for him he ran up behind me and held the top of my head while he gripped my throat. I was able to turn out of his grip but he followed me after I walked quickly away. I was finally able to get away from him and call the police but he had already gotten into his car and drove away.

At what point may I use self defense and how much can I use? If I use a stun gun am I in the wrong or can I use it? If I "Lay him out" am I in the wrong? I googled these but just cam up short. Any help would be appreciated because I know I will have to deal with people like this again.

You need to have that conversation with your employer. Force that would be acceptable for the average person on the street is not necessarily acceptable for a paid employee of the establishment that provided the drunken man the booze.

DC

 

[justalayman]

there is no obligation to flee to avoid the confrontation. After that, this appears to apply:

45-3-102. Use of force in defense of person. A person is justified in the use of force or threat to use force against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that the conduct is necessary for self-defense or the defense of another against the other person's imminent use of unlawful force. However, the person is justified in the use of force likely to cause death or serious bodily harm only if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent imminent death or serious bodily harm to the person or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

Once you escaped his grasp and if he did not continue the attack, you no longer had any right to use force against him at all. Your rights to defend yourself ended when there was no need to defend yourself.

If generally it is legal to use a taser in your state, I see nothing prohibiting you from using it in the situation described, if you are actually being attacked.

as DC stated, what your employer expects of you is just as important as what the law expects of you. Using force beyond what your employer would agree to is likely to get you fired.

also understand that regardless of what the law says here, if you injure the person you may be subject to a civil suit, along with your employer since you were on the clock at the time. While you may escape a criminal prosecution, the results of a civil prosecution can be very different. (Think OJ Simpson)