Why does there have to be penetration to count as rape in some states?

[harmonica]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

New York

I was watching Law and Order and a man wanted to charge a woman with raping him but couldn't since in New York state, it legally does not count as rape unless there was penetration. I know it's just TV show, so I looked it up and in some states it is true, and it's the fuel of talk show and internet debates.

But it seems like a very sexist double standard-ish law to me. So it's only legal for a man to be a rapist but not a woman then? Who was mad enough to make up such a sexist rule and why? If you look up rape in the encyclopedia, or the dictionary, it says that rape means what it is, which is forced intercourse. It says nothing about there having to be penetration for it count.

So what kind of a person would make up such a thing, and how is it that several states and lawmakers were sexist and unfair enough to agree?

 

[CdwJava]

I was watching Law and Order and a man wanted to charge a woman with raping him but couldn't since in New York state, it legally does not count as rape unless there was penetration. I know it's just TV show, so I looked it up and in some states it is true, and it's the fuel of talk show and internet debates.

But it seems like a very sexist double standard-ish law to me. So it's only legal for a man to be a rapist but not a woman then? Who was mad enough to make up such a sexist rule and why? If you look up rape in the encyclopedia, or the dictionary, it says that rape means what it is, which is forced intercourse. It says nothing about there having to be penetration for it count.

So what kind of a person would make up such a thing, and how is it that several states and lawmakers were sexist and unfair enough to agree?

Because the crime of rape in most states (maybe all) requires penal penetration. It's that simple.

But, you are wrong that only the man can be charged ... at least in most (maybe all?) states.

In my state "rape" pursuant to PC 261 DOES require penetration, but it also requires that the act of sexual intercourse be accomplished by force or fear - or the victim be incapable of giving consent. The section does NOT say the perpetrator must be a man.

 

[harmonica]

Well if a woman were to rape a man, that would mean taking his penis and forcing it into her vagina. There is no penile penetration when a woman does it (at least not penetrating the victim), so does it still count as rape?

 

[Proserpina]

Well if a woman were to rape a man, that would mean taking his penis and forcing it into her vagina. There is no penile penetration when a woman does it (at least not penetrating the victim), so does it still count as rape?

You're missing the point completely.

The issue is "consent".

 

[harmonica]

I know the issue is consent. Yet there is a law that says there has to be penetration, even though there still isn't consent. What point am I missing?

 

[Zigner]

I know the issue is consent. Yet there is a law that says there has to be penetration, even though there still isn't consent. What point am I missing?

I'll spell it out...
Let's say a man is drugged and then, while still under the influence of those drugs (to the point of being unable to give legal consent), he is forced to have intercourse with the woman who drugged him...

 

[CdwJava]

I know the issue is consent. Yet there is a law that says there has to be penetration, even though there still isn't consent. What point am I missing?

If a woman holds a gun to a man's head and forces him to have sex, so long as he makes penetration it is rape (in my state). If he fails to make penetration it is assault to commit rape (and, of course, assorted assault charges for the firearm, false imprisonment or kidnapping, etc.).

A sexual act committed by force is rape. If there is no penetration it will still be a crime, it just will not be "rape." Rae is a crime that requires penetration no matter how slight.

It is like assault and battery. If I swing at your nose and miss, I have committed Assault. If I strike your nose it is is Battery. Different crimes for different elements. If I fail to complete the act (striking your nose) it is one offense, if I impact your nose, it is another offense entirely.

Rape is a crime that requires penetration. No penetration means it will be another crime.

 

[BOR]

Some states Codify Rape and Sexual assault differently.

Digital/object penetration can be done also.

A woman forcing a man to commit a sex act is punishable by law.

Rape/sexual assault can also include, annalingus, felatio, cunnilingus.

When I took Vice in Criminal law we learned some interesting stuff about human sexual nature.

Some states still do NOT outlaw bestiality or necrophilia. Figure that one.

 

[HighwayMan]

New York has other statutes which would apply if there is no penetration. Sexual Abuse (PL 130.55, 130.60, 130.65) and Forcible Touching (PL 130.50) come to mind.

All New York sex crimes are in article 130 of the Penal Law if you want to look them up.

 

[harmonica]

I know it will still be under sexual assault. I just thought it was a double standard that if a man forces his penis into a woman, it's rape, but if a woman forces a man's into hers, it's just sexual assault. Seems pretty double standard-ish.

 

[davew128]

I know it will still be under sexual assault. I just thought it was a double standard that if a man forces his penis into a woman, it's rape, but if a woman forces a man's into hers, it's just sexual assault. Seems pretty double standard-ish.

Did you actually read any of the responses? A woman forcing a man's penis into her is rape.

 

[CdwJava]

I know it will still be under sexual assault. I just thought it was a double standard that if a man forces his penis into a woman, it's rape, but if a woman forces a man's into hers, it's just sexual assault. Seems pretty double standard-ish.

The latter is also rape.

 

[harmonica]

But I read that in some states the victim needed to be penetrated in order for it to legally count. Otherwise it's just assault.

 

[>Charlotte<]

But I read that in some states the victim needed to be penetrated in order for it to legally count. Otherwise it's just assault.

It's not required that the male victim be penetrated. It's that penetration must occur. If a woman forces a man's penis into her vagina, penetration has occurred. That is rape. Which has been said five times ITT.

 

[HighwayMan]

We're talking about New York. I gave you the legal references for sex crimes in the Penal Law. Why don't you look it up and read the statutes yourself?