Am I stealing US mail by doing this ?

[Cedrus]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Oregon

So I'm inside our rural post office looking at what was in our PO Box. At the sorting table with a wastebasket nearby.

I spy in the wastebasket a catalog I have never seen before. I pick it out and depart the premises.

Have I committed a crime? I emailed the main post office in DC. They had no answer other than for me to ask my local postmaster. Have not done this and don't think I want to.

I have also found catalogs on the floor by the wastebasket and on the sorting table. This would seem to be discarded mail as opposed to "in the wastebasket mail"

So, am I being bad ?

[Antigone*of*Greece]

Originally Posted by Cedrus

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Oregon

So I'm inside our rural post office looking at what was in our PO Box. At the sorting table with a wastebasket nearby.

I spy in the wastebasket a catalog I have never seen before. I pick it out and depart the premises.

Have I committed a crime? I emailed the main post office in DC. They had no answer other than for me to ask my local postmaster. Have not done this and don't think I want to.

I have also found catalogs on the floor by the wastebasket and on the sorting table. This would seem to be discarded mail as opposed to "in the wastebasket mail"

So, am I being bad ?

So what Cedrus, do you want to be spanked Don't you have bigger things to worry about???

[tranquility]

Strictly speaking, yes. You have committed larceny. However, if all we're really talking about is a catalog in a wastebasket, no one is going to care and the police will not arrest you and the DA will not prosecute you for the theft of the material.

[TheKingOfKool]

Originally Posted by Cedrus

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Oregon

So I'm inside our rural post office looking at what was in our PO Box. At the sorting table with a wastebasket nearby.

I spy in the wastebasket a catalog I have never seen before. I pick it out and depart the premises.

Have I committed a crime? I emailed the main post office in DC. They had no answer other than for me to ask my local postmaster. Have not done this and don't think I want to.

I have also found catalogs on the floor by the wastebasket and on the sorting table. This would seem to be discarded mail as opposed to "in the wastebasket mail"

So, am I being bad ?

once mail is thrown out it becomes the publics

[JETX]

Originally Posted by TheKingOfKool

once mail is thrown out it becomes the publics

And of course, that is 110% crap.

[quincy]

TheKingOfKool is not entirely incorrect here, Jet and Tranquility. The U.S. Supreme Court ruled in 1988 that "trash-picking" is legal (see California v Greenwood).

There are laws connected to garbage-sifting and taking that can be illegal, however (ie. the use of garbage content for identity theft), and cities may have ordinances related to trash-picking (ie. littering), and states can have laws protecting certain types of garbage from being taken (ie. recyclables), and there are trespass laws that could come into play when garbage containers are on private property. And, just because something is in the general vicinity of trash does not make it trash that can be freely taken (ie. a child's bicycle left in a yard within close proximity of trash bags or catalogs found "on a sorting table" near a wastebasket ).

But, generally, it is legal to take trash left for collection in an area that is accessible to the public, and a person should have no expectation of privacy when placing garbage at a curb or in a trash receptacle, nor should they have any expectation that another may not find their trash treasure and take it for themselves.

The problem in this case could be that, although the trash is in an area accessible to the public, the waste in the wastebasket is not at the curb ready for collection. I do not know if this would make a difference. However, I agree with Tranquility that any prosecution, should such an act of trash-picking be illegal for some reason, would be unlikely. But I would definitely avoid taking anything that is not in the wastebasket, no matter how close to the wastebasket it may be.

[justalayman]

but to answer the original question:

no, you are not stealing mail BUT you may be stealing just the same. Once it is received by the addressee, it is no longer "mail" but merely property that was delivered via the mail services.

[quincy]

Justalayman, you failed to answer Cedrus' OTHER original question: "Am I being bad?" Care to tackle that one?

[justalayman]

Originally Posted by quincy

Justalayman, you failed to answer Cedrus' OTHER original question: "Am I being bad?" Care to tackle that one?

I would say yes and as punishment, I elect you to administer 80 lashes with a wet noodle

[JETX]

Originally Posted by quincy

TheKingOfKool is not entirely incorrect here, Jet and Tranquility. The U.S. Supreme Court ruled in 1988 that "trash-picking" is legal (see California v Greenwood).

I know that... but that is NOT what this thread is about.

The 'trash' in this thread never made it to the "TRASH"... it just missed the 'in room' trash can.

KOK post that "once mail is thrown out it becomes the publics" is not only incorrect in fact... the case in this thread is it is NOT in fact 'thrown out' (disposed).

[quincy]

The catalog Cedrus confiscated was IN the wastebasket (re-read the original post, Jet), which means it is trash. Anything OUTSIDE the wastebasket or on the sorting counter would not be.

The question then becomes whether a court would consider wastebasket trash accessible to the public inside the post office to be comparable to trash in a garbage bag at curbside waiting for collection. I don't know the answer to that.

So, when I said that KingOfKool was "not entirely incorrect" about the fact that "once mail is thrown out" it becomes fair game to trash-pickers, I was not incorrect. On the other hand, YOUR contention that KingOfKool's comment was "110% crap" was NOT correct. There may have been a percentage of crap, but not 110%.

As for the 80 lashes, justalayman, I think Jet is itching to do that (at least that is the only reason I can see that he popped back in here to post his nonsense ).

[JETX]

Originally Posted by quincy

The catalog Cedrus confiscated was IN the wastebasket (re-read the original post, Jet), which means it is trash. Anything OUTSIDE the wastebasket or on the sorting counter would not be.

Use that thing holding your ears apart!!!

If I throw a piece of paper in MY trash can at my desk... it is not 'open trash' for anyone to take and steal.
If I throw something in YOUR trash can at your desk, you can 'retrieve' it or give permission to someone else to retrieve it.
When your trash is picked up and put in a COMMON 'company wide' trash can, any authorized person in the company has the right to retrieve it.
Once the trash is put in trash at the curb... then there is no longer an 'expectation of privacy' or ownership... and it becomes 'open'.

In California v Greenwood, the court found "we conclude that respondents exposed their garbage to the public sufficiently to defeat their claim to Fourth Amendment protection. It is common knowledge that plastic garbage bags left on or at the side of a public street are readily accessible to animals...children, scavengers...snoops...and other members of the public" citing People v. Krivda as an example.

Krivda says, "one must reasonably anticipate that under certain circumstances third persons may invade his privacy to some extent. It is certainly not unforeseen that trash collectors or even vagrants or children may rummage through one's trash barrels and remove some of its contents." Greenwood held that the, "Fourth Amendment does not prohibit the warrantless search and seizure of garbage left for collection outside the curtilage of a home."

The question then becomes whether a court would consider wastebasket trash accessible to the public inside the post office to be comparable to trash in a garbage bag at curbside waiting for collection. I don't know the answer to that.

Of course you don't. You have to have at least SOME legal education to know.
Simple fact.... the material IN or near a trash can, at home or 'at work', is protected UNTIL such time as it becomes "accessible to the public" and/or outside the "curtilage of an (office)".

[quincy]

Uh, JetX, what you just posted supports my argument, not yours.

Care to take it back?

[justalayman]

Originally Posted by JETX

Simple fact.... the material IN or near a trash can, at home or 'at work', is protected UNTIL such time as it becomes "accessible to the public" and/or outside the "curtilage of an (office)".

and the room the OP was wondering around in, along with all the other USPS patrons (i.e. "the public"), was not considered to be "accessible to the public" because?

[Tallrat]

Originally Posted by quincy

Uh, JetX, what you just posted supports my argument, not yours.

Care to take it back?

Too Cool