declared dead, but actually alive

[cortb]

possible states involved: florida and indiana
My uncle, who lives in florida, went to buy a car today. When he went to find out if he could get a loan, he was told that he was dead. that his name and ssn were that of a dead person.

So, where does he even start? his fingerprints are in the system as he spent a few nights in jail a decade or two ago, so i suggested he go out and find a cop to punch or to commit a crime infront of a cop. My thought process being that they would run his prints after he was arrested and find the old prints on file and realize something was wrong. However, while I realize that this is FAR from the best option, it was the only one i could think of.

i would really appreciate the advice, if someone out there knows how to get this fixed.

 

[TigerD]

Nice try. I saw that news story too.

http://www.thecourier.com/Issues/2013/Oct/08/ar_news_100813_story2.asp?d=100813_story2,2013,Oct,08&c=n

DC

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

Ohio courts can be strict, LOL. If this were actually a real situation, he would need to file in Federal Court to be declared alive again.

 

[cortb]

no, really.

Not kidding here, this is actually happening. My uncle who lives near miami, was actually told today that he was legally dead. After reading the article that debtcollector posted, i'm even more worried since we don't even know when or where he was declared dead. He's unmarried, but lives with his partner and has no kids so we just don't know how he would have been declared dead. My only thoughts are that his identity was stolen and the thief died while in possession of my uncle's information or that it's just some kind of clerical error.

What I need to know is where to start. calling county records for information, or contacting an actual lawyer?

 

[TigerD]

or contacting an actual lawyer?

That would be preferable and far more effective than consulting the waitress at the local dirty spoon. But given the status of the job market, the waitress at the local dirty spoon might be an actual lawyer.

Seriously, if he has been declared dead - I would start with the Social Security Death Master File. http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/149/~/social-security's-death-master-file

Work the problem from there.

DC

 

[HighwayMan]

He should also get his credit report from all three credit bureaus to see if there is anything unusual going on there.

 

[LdiJ]

Not kidding here, this is actually happening. My uncle who lives near miami, was actually told today that he was legally dead. After reading the article that debtcollector posted, i'm even more worried since we don't even know when or where he was declared dead. He's unmarried, but lives with his partner and has no kids so we just don't know how he would have been declared dead. My only thoughts are that his identity was stolen and the thief died while in possession of my uncle's information or that it's just some kind of clerical error.

What I need to know is where to start. calling county records for information, or contacting an actual lawyer?

He needs to go down to the nearest Social Security Administration office with as much ID as he can possibly come up with to prove to them that he is alive. Most likely someone died with an SSN that is very similar to his, and it accidentally got inputted as his social. It will take some time to fix, but it is fixable.

The guy in Ohio was declared legally dead by a court of law, and that seems to be what is causing problems on his end. There is apparently something in the OH statutes that is not allowing the judge to reverse the ruling that he is legally dead.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

He should also get his credit report from all three credit bureaus to see if there is anything unusual going on there.

Like a dead guy trying to obtain them you mean? ROFLMAO

 

[Ohiogal]

He needs to go down to the nearest Social Security Administration office with as much ID as he can possibly come up with to prove to them that he is alive. Most likely someone died with an SSN that is very similar to his, and it accidentally got inputted as his social. It will take some time to fix, but it is fixable.

The guy in Ohio was declared legally dead by a court of law, and that seems to be what is causing problems on his end. There is apparently something in the OH statutes that is not allowing the judge to reverse the ruling that he is legally dead.

There are quite a few things that are having the judge NOT reverse it -- such as the fact that this guy is/was a deadbeat who didn't pay child support and if he is declared alive, his ex and his minor children will suffer. If he was declared dead judicially, he had three years to dispute it. He didn't. He hid for many more years. He was on the run for felony non payment of support -- amassing over 25k in arrears. The guy deserves to remain dead.

 

[LdiJ]

There are quite a few things that are having the judge NOT reverse it -- such as the fact that this guy is/was a deadbeat who didn't pay child support and if he is declared alive, his ex and his minor children will suffer. If he was declared dead judicially, he had three years to dispute it. He didn't. He hid for many more years. He was on the run for felony non payment of support -- amassing over 25k in arrears. The guy deserves to remain dead.

Yeah, but he is NOT dead. I heartily agree that the guy is a deadbeat who deserves to be punished for that. However, that case is disturbing on a constitutional level for many reasons. How can you have a law that says someone only has three years to challenge a legal declaration that they are dead, when the whole nature of that type of case indicates that they would not know that they had been declared dead?

There are other ways that he could be held accountable that would not subject his wife to punitive measures in recapturing SS benefits (his children are no longer minors and no longer collecting benefits...he was declared dead in 1994 which was 8 years after he disappeared, so his children have to be 27 years old or older). Heck, as long as he is legally dead he cannot even be held accountable for being a deadbeat!

Personally, I think that this is a case that can and should be appealed.

 

[Ohiogal]

Yeah, but he is NOT dead. I heartily agree that the guy is a deadbeat who deserves to be punished for that. However, that case is disturbing on a constitutional level for many reasons. How can you have a law that says someone only has three years to challenge a legal declaration that they are dead, when the whole nature of that type of case indicates that they would not know that they had been declared dead?

There are other ways that he could be held accountable that would not subject his wife to punitive measures in recapturing SS benefits (his children are no longer minors and no longer collecting benefits...he was declared dead in 1994 which was 8 years after he disappeared, so his children have to be 27 years old or older). Heck, as long as he is legally dead he cannot even be held accountable for being a deadbeat!

Personally, I think that this is a case that can and should be appealed.

Actually it would have been known if he had ever tried to:
1) Apply for passport;
2) Buy anything on credit;
3) Use his social security number on any form;
4) open a bank account;
5) Applied for a job;
6) Filed taxes.

Should I continue? So how did he survive since 1994? My guess -- working cash jobs only and living with significant others. And the federal government is going to not pursue money wrongfully paid out? The only one who they can go after is the one who received the money. That could subject this woman to criminal charges on a federal level. Why? Because of federal laws.

 

[LdiJ]

Actually it would have been known if he had ever tried to:
1) Apply for passport;
2) Buy anything on credit;
3) Use his social security number on any form;
4) open a bank account;
5) Applied for a job;
6) Filed taxes.

Should I continue? So how did he survive since 1994? My guess -- working cash jobs only and living with significant others. And the federal government is going to not pursue money wrongfully paid out? The only one who they can go after is the one who received the money. That could subject this woman to criminal charges on a federal level. Why? Because of federal laws.

Maybe he was homeless? People who are homeless are generally off the grid.

I personally know of a couple of cases where someone got SSDI benefits fraudulently and got caught. Their children received children's benefits. Yes, the SSA first went after the custodial parent to try to recoup the SS benefits but after an appeal by the custodial parent (which was just an appointment at the nearest SSA office) and an internal investigation, the SSA determined that the parent who was fraudulent was responsible to pay them back. Now, obviously this case is different, but still, since a court declared him legally dead, I think that an appeal to the SSA could possibly result in her not having to pay back the benefits...and I certainly do not agree that there is any potential for any criminal charge...unless of course it can be proven that she knew that he was NOT dead, in which case she would have committed fraud herself.

Still however...no matter what the result might be to someone else, I cannot see it meeting constitutional muster to insist that someone who is clearly alive, must remain legally dead. Yeah, the guy deserves a whole lot of punishment, but in this case the state is basically stealing his identity.

 

[Ohiogal]

Maybe he was homeless? People who are homeless are generally off the grid.

I personally know of a couple of cases where someone got SSDI benefits fraudulently and got caught. Their children received children's benefits. Yes, the SSA first went after the custodial parent to try to recoup the SS benefits but after an appeal by the custodial parent (which was just an appointment at the nearest SSA office) and an internal investigation, the SSA determined that the parent who was fraudulent was responsible to pay them back. Now, obviously this case is different, but still, since a court declared him legally dead, I think that an appeal to the SSA could possibly result in her not having to pay back the benefits...and I certainly do not agree that there is any potential for any criminal charge...unless of course it can be proven that she knew that he was NOT dead, in which case she would have committed fraud herself.

Still however...no matter what the result might be to someone else, I cannot see it meeting constitutional muster to insist that someone who is clearly alive, must remain legally dead. Yeah, the guy deserves a whole lot of punishment, but in this case the state is basically stealing his identity.

I disagree. The state is NOT stealing his identity. He gave it up. The burden by the way is on HIM to prove that should be declared alive. If he was homeless he could have proven that. He had the burden here in why he did not know for so long that he was dead.

 

[LdiJ]

I disagree. The state is NOT stealing his identity. He gave it up. The burden by the way is on HIM to prove that should be declared alive. If he was homeless he could have proven that. He had the burden here in why he did not know for so long that he was dead.

Just FYI, being declared legally dead would not necessarily be an issue where taxes are concerned. If someone files a tax return and pays tax, the IRS is not going to reject that return (at least not a paper return) just because an SSN reports that person as dead. They might not issue refunds and certainly wouldn't pay out refundable credits, but they would not reject the return or any taxes paid.

 

[Ohiogal]

Just FYI, being declared legally dead would not necessarily be an issue where taxes are concerned. If someone files a tax return and pays tax, the IRS is not going to reject that return (at least not a paper return) just because an SSN reports that person as dead. They might not issue refunds and certainly wouldn't pay out refundable credits, but they would not reject the return or any taxes paid.

I will concede tax to you. Thank you for that information.