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Dog bit the UPS man

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Sinsaint

Member
I live in Pennsylvania. My dog is a two year old Pittbull/Boxer mix. I have a wireless pet fence system to contain her as well as my Border Collie. I have the system set up so that the dogs cannot get in the driveway (they will get zapped approximately two feet from the driveway). The part of the yard beside the driveway is also an inclining hill that I have mulch on. It's clearly not a walkway. I told this UPS driver (as well as the FedEx lady) that as long as they stay in the driveway the dogs won't be an issue for them. There have been no problems for over two years now.

Friday the UPS driver showed up with a package. I was already out back so I walked out front to meet him. As I was coming around the corner I saw him walking to the door with the package. He placed it at the door and started walking back to his truck. It was at that point that I noticed he was walking up through the mulch swinging the thing you sign at her (I learned later that is a diode). I saw my dog's front was croutch down and I yelled for him to back up. He swung his thing at her again and that's when she bit his leg and he started screaming. I went out to check on him. I got my first aid kit, helped him clean the three puncture wounds, put bandaids on him, etc. He called his supervisor to report the bite. I heard him tell his supervisor that this was a regular house on his route, he was aware of the dogs, aware of the fence location and that the dog had her collar on. I also spoke to the supervisor on the phone. I gave him my vet information and phone number so her could confirm through them that she is current on her vaccinations. By the time the conversation was done the three puncture wounds had stopped bleeding. I asked him again if he was certain he was okay and if he needed to go to the hospital. He said he was fine. I gave him a few more bandaids for his trip just in case and then he left.

Half an hour later the UPS supervisor called and said he was on his way to my house. He showed up with a woman and they started taking pictures, asked me what I saw, where the fence system ends, etc. I asked why they were there and they said it was just for insurance purposes. My Border Collie was still outside and he refused to come into the driveway. I took off his collar to show them where the dogs get zapped at. The supervisor was the one who pointed out to me that he could see the driver's footprints in the mulch. He also stated the driver shouldn't have been in the mulch. They took pictures of that, me standing where I saw the incident, and the driveway. The driver told them he never got a chance to swing anything at her to deter her before she bit him. I told them I clearly saw him swinging the thing you sign (that's when they told me it's called a diode) at her twice before she bit him (to me that isn't deterring, that's provoking). Furthermore, I had to pick up his pen from the yard because it flew out during one of his swings, so yes, he was swinging it. I told them the driveway is plenty big enough to walk through and that there was no need for him to be in the mulch. As they were leaving the woman took another picture of the driveway and said she guesstimated it was 20 to 25 feet wide and then they left.

Should I call my home owner's insurance company to let them know what happened or should I wait to see if I hear anything else about it?
 


FlyingRon

Senior Member
You are entirely liable here. The invisible fence and the fact that you've told some drivers to stay on the pavement isn't going to indemnify you from having a vicious dog lose on the property where legitimate visitors may walk. I have no idea what this nonsense about "diodes" is or why it matters. The only argument is whether the driver provoked the dog by attempting to strike it with the signature pad or was already acting in self defense at that point.

If you get any word from UPS that they intend to pursue for damages I'd definitely have my insurance number handy.
I'd also not rule out getting a call from animal control at this point.
 

Sinsaint

Member
You are entirely liable here. The invisible fence and the fact that you've told some drivers to stay on the pavement isn't going to indemnify you from having a vicious dog lose on the property where legitimate visitors may walk. I have no idea what this nonsense about "diodes" is or why it matters. The only argument is whether the driver provoked the dog by attempting to strike it with the signature pad or was already acting in self defense at that point.

If you get any word from UPS that they intend to pursue for damages I'd definitely have my insurance number handy.
I'd also not rule out getting a call from animal control at this point.
The dog is/was not vicious. She has never bitten anyone prior to this. And I didn't tell "some drivers" to stay in the driveway. I told this driver specifically to stay in the driveway. The driveway goes straight to my door. He had no legitimate reason for walking through my flower bed. I witnessed the entire thing. He walked up to the door through the driveway with no issues other than her barking. As he was walking back to his truck he walked through the mulch and swung the signature pad at her, then she croutched. I yelled at him to back up, he swung it at her again and then she bit him. I've had complete strangers come into my yard with no issues. Of course, none of those people were trying to smack her in the face with anything. If he had swung that thing at my face I would have punched him (and had every right to) but I guess when a dog is getting swung at and she does what any typical dog would do when it feels threatened it's all the owner's fault.
 

swalsh411

Senior Member
Your dog bit a person without provocation. That is the definition of viscous. Be responsible and have your dangerous animal put down before something worse happens. The "never bit anybody before" argument is rubbish. A dog is not a computer program that will execute the same operations over and over. Temperaments can change.
 
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Willlyjo

Guest
Your dog bit a person without provocation. That is the definition of viscous. Be responsible and have your dangerous animal put down before something worse happens. The "never bit anybody before" argument is rubbish. A dog is not a computer program that will execute the same operations over and over. Temperaments can change.
That is horrible horrible advice for the OP to have their dog euthanized because it bit the UPS worker! I agree the OP is liable for damages to the UPS worker, but having the dog destroyed is NOT necessary. The OP should find a better way to restrain the dog so nobody gets bit in the future.

BTW...you need to learn how to spell vicious. ;)
 
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LdiJ

Senior Member
Your dog bit a person without provocation. That is the definition of viscous. Be responsible and have your dangerous animal put down before something worse happens. The "never bit anybody before" argument is rubbish. A dog is not a computer program that will execute the same operations over and over. Temperaments can change.
And in addition to what the previous poster said, where do you get the "without provocation"?
 

las365

Senior Member
That is the definition of viscous.
viscous
adjective thick, sticky, gooey (informal), adhesive, tenacious, clammy, syrupy, glutinous, gummy, gelatinous, icky (informal), gluey, treacly, mucilaginous, viscid a viscous, white, sticky liquid
While the dog may be thick, tenacious, gummy or even icky, I think you are probably meaning it is vicious. ;)

OP, in my opinion you are probably liable for the bite. The problem with an invisible fence is that it is, well, invisible. If the delivery guy had entered a visibly fenced area, you would have a better argument that it is his own fault he was bitten.
 

Sinsaint

Member
Your dog bit a person without provocation. That is the definition of viscous. Be responsible and have your dangerous animal put down before something worse happens. The "never bit anybody before" argument is rubbish. A dog is not a computer program that will execute the same operations over and over. Temperaments can change.
Without provocation? He swung an object at her face twice before she bit him. What did he have to do? Bend over and bite her before she was entitled to bite him back?

As to the invisible fence issue.... I would agree if this was a complete stranger. This guy has been delivering packages here for the last six years now with no issues. He is well aware of where the invisible fence boundry is. He had been to my house three times just in that week. He told his supervisor he knew where the boundry was and that her collar was on. I just don't get how a person could walk in an area they know they aren't supposed to be in and then cry foul when something bad happens.

My neighbor has horses but I can have legitimate reasons for walking through his yard. Say six years ago he said "I'd prefer you walk up the driveway. My horses aren't mean or anything but if you come up behind one it might kick you in the face." Over the years I've come to know the older one. I know the younger one is frisk. He whinnies and bucks whenever I come around. So today I run over to talk to my neighbor. I walk through his yard, even though he told me not to, and as an aside, I walk up behind his horse and try to slap it's butt. I end up getting kicked in the face. Who is to blame? The owner of the horse who already told me not to be in his yard because his horse may do exactly what a horse will do when you walk up behind it? I mean you can't blame me. I only did exactly what the guy told me not to do. It has to be all his fault.
 

swalsh411

Senior Member
And in addition to what the previous poster said, where do you get the "without provocation"?
What the mail carrier did is not sufficient provocation to excuse an attack

Bend over and bite her before she was entitled to bite him back?
A dog is never justified in biting a person unless acting in self defense. That you would believe a dog is "entitled" to attack a person the way your dog attacked the mail carrier tells me you are an irresponsible pet owner. You should have your dangerous animal put down and educate yourself before you even think of owning another. The thing that was swung in his face could have just as easily been a child trying to play.

edit: Also, the postal carrier does not have to follow your instructions for how he delivers your mail.
 
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Willlyjo

Guest
What the mail carrier did is not sufficient provocation to excuse an attack



A dog is never justified in biting a person unless acting in self defense. That you would believe a dog is "entitled" to attack a person the way your dog attacked the mail carrier tells me you are an irresponsible pet owner. You should have your dangerous animal put down and educate yourself before you even think of owning another. The thing that was swung in his face could have just as easily been a child trying to play.

edit: Also, the postal carrier does not have to follow your instructions for how he delivers your mail.
You should educate yourself on what would be a valid reason for euthanizing an animal. For instance, if such a dog was running wild on the streets and biting everyone around, then I'd agree it would be necessary to "put it down". In the Op's situation though, I think you are ignorant as to what most people would think about resolving the matter by putting down their pet.:rolleyes:
 

swalsh411

Senior Member
You should educate yourself on what would be a valid reason for euthanizing an animal. For instance, if such a dog was running wild on the streets and biting everyone around, then I'd agree it would be necessary to "put it down". In the Op's situation though, I think you are ignorant as to what most people would think about resolving the matter by putting down their pet.:rolleyes:
My opinion does not change because others happen to disagree. In my view a dog who bites a person except in cases where the animal is being injured and is defending itself or her puppies is dangerous and should not be around people. I own two dogs by the way.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
My opinion does not change because others happen to disagree. In my view a dog who bites a person except in cases where the animal is being injured and is defending itself or her puppies is dangerous and should not be around people. I own two dogs by the way.
You are perfectly entitled to your very personal opinion on the matter. I doubt that many people however, would share that opinion. The UPS guy knew the dogs, knew where the fence was and was idiotic enough to strike out at the dog with something. Expecting an animal not to view that as a threat is illogical.
 

Sinsaint

Member
This statement may be true in the future.
I said it that way because if I say she isn't vicious everyone would say she bit someone so she is. If I say she wasn't vicious people will say I'm admitting now that she is.

I don't believe she's vicious at all. She was barking at him (in her normal bark... no gutteral snarls or signs of aggression). This is her normal behavior with any guest. Most people either pet her or just go about their business with no issues. He swung at her. At that point she can't say "hey... let's talk about this" or swing back at him with her paw. No, nature only gave her one way to defend herself... her teeth. Since she's never been hit before I can only imagine she viewed his actions as a threat. She crouched to let him know she viewed the swing as a threat. This is the point he could have easily backed up but chose not to. He swung again and that is when she bit.

And I'm not minimizing the damage. She left punctures and I'm certain it hurt the guy... just as she perceived getting hit in the face would hurt. She didn't "lock on" as the claim is with pittbulls. She didn't attempt to shake him, drag him, maul him, etc. I'm certain she could have hurt him far worse if she was being "aggressive." She gave him one bite in defense. He backed up and then she was fine.
 

Sinsaint

Member
My opinion does not change because others happen to disagree. In my view a dog who bites a person except in cases where the animal is being injured and is defending itself or her puppies is dangerous and should not be around people. I own two dogs by the way.
You're right. I'll call my vet tomorrow and have the dog euthanized. When she drops me as a client for being rediculous I'll just come home and give my dog some Hershey Kisses dipped in antifreeze. That problem will be solved. Hopefully I can find another dog who thinks getting slapped in the face with a hard object is nothing but good times. I have a feeling I'm going to go through a lot of dogs finding that special one that thinks slaps to the face should be rewarded with licks. But.... who cares? Dogs are a dime a dozen these days. Dogs are nothing but property a it's not like we have any particular affection for the animals. We just keep them around to bite people.
 

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