Dog Hit and Run

[genalewis]

What is the name of your state? Indiana

Yesterday, a pack of 200+ motorcycles that were on a group-organized ride sped down my street. It was unusual enough just to have this many motorcycles in a rural area. When my dog went to check out the commotion (while he was still in the yard, at least six feet in from the road), a motorcyclist swerved on to the grass on private property to hit and kill my dog. A neighbor witnessed what happened, and said that he could hear the other cyclists laughing about it and proceeding to run over him many more times for sport. It was obvious that it was intentional and out of sheer cruelty and disregard for someone's small, docile pet.

I have found out who organized the ride, I have notified the police (who have done nothing so far) and I want to pursue finding the individual(s) that was responsible. I have asked the organziation that sponsored the ride to ask around to see if anyone saw anything, but I doubt they will cooperate.

My question is this: is this a criminal or a civil matter? I would assume it might end up being both. If we can pinpoint an individual, I would think we could press charges for animal cruelty, what with the eye witness and whatever evidence (tire tracks in the yard, etc) that was available. If we cannot nail down an individual, what liability would the organization as a whole have? Any?

Please let me know your thoughts on this issue. It was a really gruesome thing to happen to a great pet/friend. I'd hate to think that whoever did this can get away with it.

[averad]

What can you prove and how can you prove it?

[THE PRACTICE-29]

Originally Posted by genalewis

What is the name of your state? Indiana

If we cannot nail down an individual, what liability would the organization as a whole have? Any?

My response:

None, for two reasons.

1. It sounds like the organization was running a charity event. If that's the case, a person, persons, and/or organization, working under such "charity" circumstances, is immune from Civil Action under Federal Law.

2. A person, persons, and/or organization is immune from liability for the criminal acts of third parties (i.e., the motorcycle riders).

Unless you can pinpoint the actual person or persons who trespassed and killed your dog, then you won't be able to do anything.

IAAL

[genalewis]

Well, I'm trying to find out if there was anyone in the group that witnessed what happened. Hopefully someone took note of it, was as disgusted as I and my family am and will be brave enough to name names if they are asked about it. I wish someone had been able to give a description of the bike, but they were speeding and the neighbors were in such shock that they didn't get it together in time to make a note of the license plate or identifying features of the bike.

For lack of better wording, this sucks. Killing someone's pet is a truly cruel act. That dog was awesome. Maybe someone will come forward with some info in the next couple of days. Wish me luck.

Thank you both for replying.

[xylene]

Some general ideas:

Lobby your government-

Fight hard to repeal the helmet law.

To hold motorcyclists to the same safety, emissions, and noise standards as automobiles.
(If loud pipes save lives... then how many lives does my bass canon save )

To require annual road tests.


While none of these things will bring back your dog - it will be a small measure of revenge against the motorcycle community.

[genalewis]

You know, I'm trying not to be vengeful, but at the same time, I love your ideas. My anger is toward irresponsible bikers, not ALL bikers, but the items you mentioned simply promote responsibility of the riders. In turn, they ARE essentially measures of revenge against the careless riders.

Thank you so much. It's certainly something to consider.

[justalayman]

Originally Posted by xylene

Some general ideas:

Lobby your government-

Fight hard to repeal the helmet law.

To hold motorcyclists to the same safety, emissions, and noise standards as automobiles.
(If loud pipes save lives... then how many lives does my bass canon save )

To require annual road tests.


While none of these things will bring back your dog - it will be a small measure of revenge against the motorcycle community.

I sure seem to be misunderstanding this.

How would repealing the helmet laws be revenge against the bikers? It would actually injure the general public. Additionally, those who choose to wear helmets still will.

I don't know where you live but bikes are held to the same legal sound standards as cars in my area. Emissions are mandated by the fedral government and they are alot more stringent than you are apparently aware of.

The safety standards, what would you impose??

Annual road tests; when they are required for cars especially old people who really should not be on the road, then you can gripe. Until then, you are looking for a discriminatory law.

[xylene]

Originally Posted by justalayman

I sure seem to be misunderstanding this.

How would repealing the helmet laws be revenge against the bikers? It would actually injure the general public. Additionally, those who choose to wear helmets still will.

The point is to drive up the costs of insurance

I don't know where you live but bikes are held to the same legal sound standards as cars in my area. Emissions are mandated by the fedral government and they are alot more stringent than you are apparently aware of.

Lets face it - motorcyclists flaunt the law. "Loud pipes save lives" While I am sure the law exists it is not adequately enforced just about anywhere.

The safety standards, what would you impose??

Seat belts. (that is a joke but their are BMW bikes in europe with belts...) All custom parts held to the same standard as auto parts (destructive testing etc..)

Annual road tests; when they are required for cars especially old people who really should not be on the road, then you can gripe. Until then, you are looking for a discriminatory law.

A motorcycle is not a car. The skill set involved is vastly more complicated. I might have a motorcycle endorsement - but if I haven't riden in years... but then decide that my marriage problems could be solved by a bad ass belt drive... Age based testing might likely be discriminatory (even if a good idea)

[justalayman]

The point is to drive up the costs of insurance

Now while I don't know if it will do as you suggest and very well may, what I am concerned about is; who is going to water all the vegetables? It will surely be a bumper crop if helmets are not required.

Lets face it - motorcyclists flaunt the law. "Loud pipes save lives" While I am sure the law exists it is not adequately enforced just about anywhere.

The you need to deal with this at your local governmental level and bitch until they do enforce the laws.

Seat belts. (that is a joke but their are BMW bikes in europe with belts...) All custom parts held to the same standard as auto parts (destructive testing etc..)

Actually I cannot see how belt can be beneficial. Actually it would be detrimental in most cases. If I am in an accident on a motorcycle, the last thing I want is to be strapped on that 500 pound hammer that is going to beat on me repeatedly.

A motorcycle is not a car. The skill set involved is vastly more complicated. I might have a motorcycle endorsement - but if I haven't riden in years... but then decide that my marriage problems could be solved by a bad ass belt drive... Age based testing might likely be discriminatory (even if a good idea)

Now I did not suggest the annuals be restricted to elderly. I merely stated that if you do it for motorcycles, you need to do it for cars. Even CDL drivers do not take an annual test and driving a triple trailer with 2 dozen wheels at 60 mph is every bit as tough as driving a motorcycle, Additionally, if the truck were to hit a car, there is much less chance of survival for the car passengers than if a motorcycle hit them.

You obviously have a dislike for motorcyclists. Why, only you know but if you have a problem with the lack of enforcement of the laws concerning motorcycles, then the solution is to call town hall and bitch. You also seem to lump all motorcyclists in the same catagory. I ride no more (because of the crazy car drivers mainly) but I can assure you that all the laws were followed and I never ran over any dogs. Not all motorcyclists are evil and not all car drivers are angels.

[divgradcurl]

Now I did not suggest the annuals be restricted to elderly. I merely stated that if you do it for motorcycles, you need to do it for cars. Even CDL drivers do not take an annual test and driving a triple trailer with 2 dozen wheels at 60 mph is every bit as tough as driving a motorcycle, Additionally, if the truck were to hit a car, there is much less chance of survival for the car passengers than if a motorcycle hit them.

Not only that, but anyone can go plunk down their money and drive off in an 8000+ lb SUV that doesn't meet any of the fuel economy requirements that cars do and then go speeding off down the freeway with a cellphone glued to the ear -- those are the kind of drivers that need to be tested, and often -- as an avid motorcycle rider and motorcycle commuter, these are the people I have to watch out for on the road, driving to fast, not paying any attention, and not staying in their lanes...

[loveumms]

To the OP - I was horrified reading your post. To believe that anyone would do such a cruel and horrendous thing to an innocent animal makes me physically sick. If the person riding the bike was so careless about running up onto your yard to kill your dog, it speaks to his skills as a rider (ie he is willing to be unwise to get kicks), I would bet he will get paybacks all by himself. Karma is really a bitch and working at a trauma center has taught me that most people who are careless on motorcycles end up with severe head injuries or worse – death.

[FLAIR FOR LAW]

Originally Posted by loveumms

To the OP - I was horrified reading your post. To believe that anyone would do such a cruel and horrendous thing to an innocent animal makes me physically sick. If the person riding the bike was so careless about running up onto your yard to kill your dog, it speaks to his skills as a rider (ie he is willing to be unwise to get kicks), I would bet he will get paybacks all by himself. Karma is really a bitch and working at a trauma center has taught me that most people who are careless on motorcycles end up with severe head injuries or worse – death.

My response:

On behalf of myself, the writer, and everyone else reading your reply, I'd like to say thank you for wasting our time by posting that non-legal bit of drivel.

IAAL

[steveatx]

Originally Posted by FLAIR FOR LAW

IAAL

Nice name. Did you run out of numbers?

[genalewis]

Originally Posted by FLAIR FOR LAW

My response:

On behalf of myself, the writer, and everyone else reading your reply, I'd like to say thank you for wasting our time by posting that non-legal bit of drivel.

IAAL

Pardon me, but I am the original poster, and for that reason, please leave it to me to decide what is and is not relevant to the post. That was incredibly rude and unnecessary. In fact, I find YOUR post to be entirely irrelevant. Thank you for wasting my time.

To loveumms, I actually do appreciate your response, and the sympathy does help. And believe me, if there is nothing that can be done to find the person responsible, remembering the inevitable effects of karma on his or her sorry ass at least gives me some relief.

[KNOW LAW CALIF]

Originally Posted by genalewis

Pardon me, but I am the original poster, and for that reason, please leave it to me to decide what is and is not relevant to the post. That was incredibly rude and unnecessary.

To loveumms, I actually do appreciate your response, and the sympathy does help. And believe me, if there is nothing that can be done to find the person responsible, remembering the inevitable effects of karma on his or her sorry ass at least gives me some relief.

My response:

No, I won't "pardon" you, and I'll decide what's right or wrong or relevant legal material. If you want "touchy-feely" bull crap, then go to "DearAbby.com." This is a LEGAL site, and you received the correct LEGAL answer.

Loveumms knows better.

IAAL