landlord liability when tenant slips on ice

[mkathyf]

NE Ohio
Go back a few weeks ago when all of NE Ohio awoke to 2-3" of ice from the night before and snow on top of the ice. (In fact, there wasn't a public parking lot that I am aware of, that was not treacherously icy)

Bottom line question:
Regarding commercial property: if the employee of a tenant falls and slips on the ice and goes to the emergency room, are we responsible for his costs?
This occurred on the morning that was so icy and then continual snow.
Plowing had occurred in the morning prior to anyone arriving at work, but snow was still accumulating.

We have spoken with our attorney, and a few friends who are also attorneys. Also, have had several conversations with our insurance broker. We don't have a clear, warm and fuzzy feeling on what our rights and liability really is...so, seeking additional input. Thanks

If you want to know more of the details, read on.

We own a commercial property in Akron. Two long buildings with a wide common drive between them. Several tenants in each building. We are responsible for snow removal.
Each building/tenant has a large cement apron in front of their business; which also gets plowed.

The entrance to the complex is short, but rather steep.

OK...here's the situation.

The morning in question:
*entrance, drive/parking were plowed and salted at approx. 5:30 AM
*tenant has a young man as an employee (whom I will call John)
*received a call from tenant: John couldn't get up the drive, so parked his car in the road and tried to walk up....slipped and fell and taking him to the ER (Our first thought was...."why didn't he walk up the entrance through the snow?")
*tenant calls (not John) and says the ER bill was $7000 and we have to pay it or turn it into our insurance.
*tenant calls again and says if we don't pay then John will get an attorney
*receive a call from tenant's attorney...says he is not representing John, but maybe we could work this out to smooth things over.
*received ER bill from John, but nothing which shows what the diagnosis was.

Here's the interesting part:
*surveillance video shows John driving up the drive, parking in front of the business then slipping and falling while walking to the door. Got up and went inside. Yet, the tenant continues to say he fell on the entrance driveway.

I welcome any feedback, in addition to what we have been told.

 

[Zigner]

NE Ohio
Go back a few weeks ago when all of NE Ohio awoke to 2-3" of ice from the night before and snow on top of the ice. (In fact, there wasn't a public parking lot that I am aware of, that was not treacherously icy)

Bottom line question:
Regarding commercial property: if the employee of a tenant falls and slips on the ice and goes to the emergency room, are we responsible for his costs?
This occurred on the morning that was so icy and then continual snow.
Plowing had occurred in the morning prior to anyone arriving at work, but snow was still accumulating.

We have spoken with our attorney, and a few friends who are also attorneys. Also, have had several conversations with our insurance broker. We don't have a clear, warm and fuzzy feeling on what our rights and liability really is...so, seeking additional input. Thanks

If you want to know more of the details, read on.

We own a commercial property in Akron. Two long buildings with a wide common drive between them. Several tenants in each building. We are responsible for snow removal.
Each building/tenant has a large cement apron in front of their business; which also gets plowed.

The entrance to the complex is short, but rather steep.

OK...here's the situation.

The morning in question:
*entrance, drive/parking were plowed and salted at approx. 5:30 AM
*tenant has a young man as an employee (whom I will call John)
*received a call from tenant: John couldn't get up the drive, so parked his car in the road and tried to walk up....slipped and fell and taking him to the ER (Our first thought was...."why didn't he walk up the entrance through the snow?")
*tenant calls (not John) and says the ER bill was $7000 and we have to pay it or turn it into our insurance.
*tenant calls again and says if we don't pay then John will get an attorney
*receive a call from tenant's attorney...says he is not representing John, but maybe we could work this out to smooth things over.
*received ER bill from John, but nothing which shows what the diagnosis was.

Here's the interesting part:
*surveillance video shows John driving up the drive, parking in front of the business then slipping and falling while walking to the door. Got up and went inside. Yet, the tenant continues to say he fell on the entrance driveway.

I welcome any feedback, in addition to what we have been told.

What do you expect anonymous strangers on the internet to tell you that you haven't been told by your attorney and insurance company?

Turn this matter over to your insurance company - that's what you pay them for. In fact, you are likely required (by your policy) to notify them.

 

[mkathyf]

I just wanted to see if there were some attorneys, on this site, who had similar cases and what the outcome was.

Our insurance company is aware of the situation. We told them to hold on the claim for a day or two.
Their opinion is that they most likely won't pay.

Our attorneys: 1) basically to paraphrase: "stupid is as stupid does". As he said: It's Ohio, it's cold, there was ice, there was snow.....be careful!
2) law won't support claim. then he changed his mind and said to file with insurance company to avoid a possible law suit.

But, if insurance company denies the claim, couldn't I still have a law suit?

 

[Zigner]

I just wanted to see if there were some attorneys, on this site, who had similar cases and what the outcome was.

Our insurance company is aware of the situation. We told them to hold on the claim for a day or two.
Their opinion is that they most likely won't pay.

Our attorneys: 1) basically to paraphrase: "stupid is as stupid does". As he said: It's Ohio, it's cold, there was ice, there was snow.....be careful!
2) law won't support claim. then he changed his mind and said to file with insurance company to avoid a possible law suit.

But, if insurance company denies the claim, couldn't I still have a law suit?

If you are sued, your insurance company will defend you in the suit. That's what you pay them to do.

 

[Ladyback1]

NE Ohio
Go back a few weeks ago when all of NE Ohio awoke to 2-3" of ice from the night before and snow on top of the ice. (In fact, there wasn't a public parking lot that I am aware of, that was not treacherously icy)

Bottom line question:
Regarding commercial property: if the employee of a tenant falls and slips on the ice and goes to the emergency room, are we responsible for his costs?
This occurred on the morning that was so icy and then continual snow.
Plowing had occurred in the morning prior to anyone arriving at work, but snow was still accumulating.

We have spoken with our attorney, and a few friends who are also attorneys. Also, have had several conversations with our insurance broker. We don't have a clear, warm and fuzzy feeling on what our rights and liability really is...so, seeking additional input. Thanks

If you want to know more of the details, read on.

We own a commercial property in Akron. Two long buildings with a wide common drive between them. Several tenants in each building. We are responsible for snow removal.
Each building/tenant has a large cement apron in front of their business; which also gets plowed.

The entrance to the complex is short, but rather steep.

OK...here's the situation.

The morning in question:
*entrance, drive/parking were plowed and salted at approx. 5:30 AM
*tenant has a young man as an employee (whom I will call John)
*received a call from tenant: John couldn't get up the drive, so parked his car in the road and tried to walk up....slipped and fell and taking him to the ER (Our first thought was...."why didn't he walk up the entrance through the snow?")
*tenant calls (not John) and says the ER bill was $7000 and we have to pay it or turn it into our insurance.
*tenant calls again and says if we don't pay then John will get an attorney
*receive a call from tenant's attorney...says he is not representing John, but maybe we could work this out to smooth things over.
*received ER bill from John, but nothing which shows what the diagnosis was.

Here's the interesting part:
*surveillance video shows John driving up the drive, parking in front of the business then slipping and falling while walking to the door. Got up and went inside. Yet, the tenant continues to say he fell on the entrance driveway.

I welcome any feedback, in addition to what we have been told.

In my opinion: "John" should have filed a work comp claim. The employers' work comp carrier, if the claim was compensable, might choose to subrogate against you (as the parking lot owner) or your property insurance carrier.

If it were me? I'd ask if John has filed a work comp claim. And if he has not, why hasn't he. (Ohio has safe ingress and egress work comp laws). While it's true that he fell in your parking lot, he wouldn't have been in the parking lot but for his employment.

I would NOT fork over any money, without a lot more information.

 

[cbg]

I found this about slip and falls due to snow and ice in Ohio.

http://toledo.legalexaminer.com/miscellaneous/can-snow-and-ice-be-viable-reason-for-slip-and-fall/

 

[Nellibelle]

In my opinion: "John" should have filed a work comp claim. The employers' work comp carrier, if the claim was compensable, might choose to subrogate against you (as the parking lot owner) or your property insurance carrier.

If it were me? I'd ask if John has filed a work comp claim. And if he has not, why hasn't he. (Ohio has safe ingress and egress work comp laws). While it's true that he fell in your parking lot, he wouldn't have been in the parking lot but for his employment.

I would NOT fork over any money, without a lot more information.

Why would the injured person file a Worker's Comp. case? He wasn't on the job when he slipped and fell! He was merely a worker for one of the tenants and it seems like he was arriving to work. I know of no law anywhere that would allow a person to successfully file a Workers Compensation claim as a result of getting injured while on the way to work for a tenant of any apartment complex.

The injured person's best recourse is to file a claim with the property owner's insurance carrier.

 

[Zigner]

Why would the injured person file a Worker's Comp. case? He wasn't on the job when he slipped and fell! He was merely a worker for one of the tenants and it seems like he was arriving to work. I know of no law anywhere that would allow a person to successfully file a Workers Compensation claim as a result of getting injured while on the way to work for a tenant of any apartment complex.

The injured person's best recourse is to file a claim with the property owner's insurance carrier.

You do raise a valid point, but it assumes facts that haven't been presented. We don't know if the employee was just arriving at work or if he had been out on errands, etc.

 

[cbg]

Actually, there are a few states where an employee who is injured on the employer's property when arriving to or leaving from work is considered to be on-the-clock for workers comp purposes, but I don't know if Ohio is one of them.

 

[Zigner]

...on the way to work for a tenant of any apartment complex.

Not that it changes the overall gist of your post...but the OP's not talking about an apartment complex.

 

[Nellibelle]

Not that it changes the overall gist of your post...but the OP's not talking about an apartment complex.

You're right Zigner--there is a difference between 'commercial property' and 'apartment complex'.

 

[Ladyback1]

Why would the injured person file a Worker's Comp. case? He wasn't on the job when he slipped and fell! He was merely a worker for one of the tenants and it seems like he was arriving to work. I know of no law anywhere that would allow a person to successfully file a Workers Compensation claim as a result of getting injured while on the way to work for a tenant of any apartment complex.

The injured person's best recourse is to file a claim with the property owner's insurance carrier.

Look up Ohio's WC statutes (I did). If the injured party had just arrived at work, it could be a compensable WC claim. If the injured party was leaving the building after clocking out, again could be a compensable claim.

You need to research. And you need to NOT post faulty information.

(several states have egress and ingress statutes--and if you don't know what that entails? Research it.

 

[Nellibelle]

Look up Ohio's WC statutes (I did). If the injured party had just arrived at work, it could be a compensable WC claim. If the injured party was leaving the building after clocking out, again could be a compensable claim.

You need to research. And you need to NOT post faulty information.

(several states have egress and ingress statutes--and if you don't know what that entails? Research it for yourself.

I found nowhere in Ohio's WC statutes that an employee such as one described in this thread would be eligible for WC if injured on the way to work by slipping on ice outside of his employer's business. In fact, I found that if one is injured outside of the business' work environment (outside of the business) whether going to or leaving work, on property that is not owned by the business, he is NOT ELIGIBLE for WC!!

I was pretty sure going into this thread, I was right about that and my research shows I was. For you to accuse me of posting faulty information in this thread is, well...faulty information!

 

[ecmst12]

One of the two of you actually worked as a worker's comp adjuster and the other did not. Guess who I'm going to believe?

And regardless, even if it might NOT be a compensable claim, the employee should still file because that's the only way to find out for sure.

 

[Ladyback1]

I found nowhere in Ohio's WC statutes that an employee such as one described in this thread would be eligible for WC if injured on the way to work by slipping on ice outside of his employer's business. In fact, I found that if one is injured outside of the business' work environment (outside of the business) whether going to or leaving work, on property that is not owned by the business, he is NOT ELIGIBLE for WC!!

I was pretty sure going into this thread, I was right about that and my research shows I was. For you to accuse me of posting faulty information in this thread is, well...faulty information!

The most recent decision out of Ohio that I found was from 2011.

It should be filed as a work comp claim FIRST.

You do not understand ingress and egress at all. Like I said, you really don't know much.