My brothers suicide

[kennaacat]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Oregon

A girl in the going to school to be in the pharmecutical field told my brother exactly what to take to commit suicide, pill wise. Thus, in the following weeks he took exactly that and killed himself.. Is there any legalities behind that, that can prevent her from continuing to completing her medical license?

 

[Proserpina]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Oregon

A girl in the going to school to be in the pharmecutical field told my brother exactly what to take to commit suicide, pill wise. Thus, in the following weeks he took exactly that and killed himself.. Is there any legalities behind that, that can prevent her from continuing to completing her medical license?

An earlier episode of L&O described the exact same circumstances.

The sheer number of different substances which can cause death when taken in excess is simply astonishing.

So, what proof exists? Was this a conversation where he asked her "Can too much tylenol kill you?" and she responded accurately?

 

[kennaacat]

No, it was more along the lines of her randomly contacting him and telling him he should kill himself and how. We also have messages from him the night he died saying that he was going to take the amount she told him and do so. When my brother died in October we spoke to the local authorities and in the state of Oregon, you can hand someone a rope and tell them how to tie a noose and there is no crime committed. So legally she cannot get into any trouble. But, with her going to school to be a pharmacist isn't there something that can be done to stop that? Seeing as she told someone to kill themselves and exactly what to take to do so. Also, the girl in question is his ex's roommate who is also going to school for the same thing. He contacted her the night of his death saying that he was going to kill himself, and by law, since she is in the medical field doesn't she have to report that? Or can it prevent her from getting hers as well?


She was as specific as to tell him exactly how many Mg's and everything.

 

[Gail in Georgia]

"When my brother died in October we spoke to the local authorities and in the state of Oregon, you can hand someone a rope and tell them how to tie a noose and there is no crime committed. So legally she cannot get into any trouble.But, with her going to school to be a pharmacist isn't there something that can be done to stop that?"

No

"He contacted her the night of his death saying that he was going to kill himself, and by law, since she is in the medical field doesn't she have to report that?"

No. She's a student who happens to be in school to, eventually, become a pharmacist.

Gail

 

[Proserpina]

No, it was more along the lines of her randomly contacting him and telling him he should kill himself and how. We also have messages from him the night he died saying that he was going to take the amount she told him and do so.

Okay, thank you for clarifying. However, that would be considered hearsay - there's no proof that she actually told him anything at all, correct?

When my brother died in October we spoke to the local authorities and in the state of Oregon, you can hand someone a rope and tell them how to tie a noose and there is no crime committed. So legally she cannot get into any trouble. But, with her going to school to be a pharmacist isn't there something that can be done to stop that? Seeing as she told someone to kill themselves and exactly what to take to do so. Also, the girl in question is his ex's roommate who is also going to school for the same thing. He contacted her the night of his death saying that he was going to kill himself, and by law, since she is in the medical field doesn't she have to report that? Or can it prevent her from getting hers as well?

Nope.

The sad truth is that someone intending to suicide will most likely eventually complete the act regardless of any third party interference.

However you might want to read this:

Oregon Rev. Stat. Ann. § 163.125 – (1) Criminal homicide constitutes manslaughter in the second degree when: . . . (b) A person intentionally causes or aids another to commit suicide[.]; Under the Death With Dignity Act, l994, a physicians may prescribe a lethal overdose to a dying patient (a resident) who requests it. (ORS 127.800).

Since this would not fall under the Death With Dignity Act, it would appear that a crime could have been committed.

The school is unlikely to act on an allegation alone. They'll want proof of wrongdoing, too.

 

[swalsh411]

To my knowledge pharmacy students do not take any sort of oath to report this nor are they legally bound to do so.

Do you have any proof she told your brother what to take? Or do you just have a message from your brother (who of course would not be available to testify) claiming that she told him what to take? Does anybody else have first hand knowledge of this alleged exchange between her and your brother?

I understand you are upset about your brother but nobody forced him to take those pills.

 

[kennaacat]

So it would be considered aiding? I have the text messages from her to my brother, who at the time did not know it was her. He had sent a text to my other brothers girlfriend at the time telling her that someone was texting him saying such things and he did not know who the number was. When he died, we found a message on facebook to her saying that he was taking what she said to take and killing himself. After we found out about the text messages, we looked in the phone records at the date and times of when he claimed to be getting the text messages and the phone number is hers.

 

[kennaacat]

Yes, I am upset.. But my family and everyone that was close to my brother have to live with this for the rest of our lives. If there is anything I can do, I want to make sure they never forget it either. I will not stop searching for something to get them on. They both told my brother repeatedly to kill himself, until he finally did. And now they both act like it never even happened. I'm simply just asking if there is anything that can be done, because I'm not to sure on where to start looking, so I'm just taking friendly advice.

 

[Proserpina]

So it would be considered aiding? I have the text messages from her to my brother, who at the time did not know it was her. He had sent a text to my other brothers girlfriend at the time telling her that someone was texting him saying such things and he did not know who the number was. When he died, we found a message on facebook to her saying that he was taking what she said to take and killing himself. After we found out about the text messages, we looked in the phone records at the date and times of when he claimed to be getting the text messages and the phone number is hers.

I think it would be virtually impossible to prove who sent the texts. And it's common knowledge that numbers can be spoofed.

I do find it difficult to believe that a pharmacy student would - completely out of the blue - contact him randomly and tell him which pills (which pills were they, out of interest?) to take to commit suicide.

 

[swalsh411]

What sort of counseling was your brother getting? If he was not receiving any, were you doing everything in your power to get treatment for him?

Facebook profiles can also be spoofed.

 

[Proserpina]

Facebook profiles can also be spoofer.

What sort of counseling was your brother getting? If he was not receiving any, were you doing everything in your power to get treatment for him?

Yes that's quite true - anyone can make a fake FB profile.

 

[kennaacat]

I think it would be virtually impossible to prove who sent the texts. And it's common knowledge that numbers can be spoofed.

I do find it difficult to believe that a pharmacy student would - completely out of the blue - contact him randomly and tell him which pills (which pills were they, out of interest?) to take to commit suicide.

It wasn't completely out of the blue. The girl is the roommate of my brothers ex of over a year. It was tylenol PM that she had told him to take. I dont remember how much, seeing as I don't have the messages to look at right now since I don't know his login information; only my other brother does. But she told him the Mg's and everything. And he did indeed overdose on Tylenol PM.

I'm not trying to say that I'm right and must have a case, I'm simply just seeing if there is anything at all that can be done about this.

 

[kennaacat]

What sort of counseling was your brother getting? If he was not receiving any, were you doing everything in your power to get treatment for him?

Facebook profiles can also be spoofed.

It was her facebook, because it is still today, her facebook. Along with her phone number. My brother hadn't really talked to anyone about being depressed or thinking about suicide. We only knew how distraught he was over losing his ex girlfriend, and then her repeatedly screwing him over and cheating on him. Yes, that's his fault for sticking around and yes it's true no one made him kill himself. I understand that. But what they both did was wrong and I'm just curious, that's all.

 

[LdiJ]

So it would be considered aiding? I have the text messages from her to my brother, who at the time did not know it was her. He had sent a text to my other brothers girlfriend at the time telling her that someone was texting him saying such things and he did not know who the number was. When he died, we found a message on facebook to her saying that he was taking what she said to take and killing himself. After we found out about the text messages, we looked in the phone records at the date and times of when he claimed to be getting the text messages and the phone number is hers.

I am very sorry that you lost your brother. However, I also feel very strongly that you have to look at the total circumstances of the situation before you decide if someone is really to blame, other than your brother. Its very human and normal to want the person who caused your brother pain to be responsible for his suicide. Its also very normal to want someone who gave your brother information on how to committ suicide to take the blame.

However, you need to step back for a moment and look at the total circumstances. Apparently your brother had a bad breakup with his girlfriend. Perhaps he was threatening to kill himself over the breakup and perhaps this person tried to call his bluff by telling him how to do it...or perhaps other factors were involved. The bottom line however is that unless this person actually believed that your brother was going to kill himself and unless her actions were intended to insure that it happened, most likely she is already suffering severely because he actually did kill himself. It also appears that other people knew what he was thinking and could have taken action as well...or at least knew what was being discussed.

Its sounds to me like there is more than one person who could be blamed for not doing something to prevent your brother from committing suicide.

 

[kennaacat]

I am very sorry that you lost your brother. However, I also feel very strongly that you have to look at the total circumstances of the situation before you decide if someone is really to blame, other than your brother. Its very human and normal to want the person who caused your brother pain to be responsible for his suicide. Its also very normal to want someone who gave your brother information on how to committ suicide to take the blame.

However, you need to step back for a moment and look at the total circumstances. Apparently your brother had a bad breakup with his girlfriend. Perhaps he was threatening to kill himself over the breakup and perhaps this person tried to call his bluff by telling him how to do it...or perhaps other factors were involved. The bottom line however is that unless this person actually believed that your brother was going to kill himself and unless her actions were intended to insure that it happened, most likely she is already suffering severely because he actually did kill himself. It also appears that other people knew what he was thinking and could have taken action as well...or at least knew what was being discussed.

Its sounds to me like there is more than one person who could be blamed for not doing something to prevent your brother from committing suicide.

You're right, there's just a part of me that wants to make sure that they never forget what has happened. :/