My dog hurt another dog

[rpaul9578]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California

I was walking my dog recently on leash in my neighborhood when suddenly a smaller dog was racing across the street at top speed towards my dog. Within 3 seconds it had reached us and my dog grabbed it in defense and shook it. I was scrambling trying to stop her and injured my knee in the process. She held it in a tight grip where I had trouble getting her to release. Thankfully a guy came out and helped me open her jaws. I felt he was very brave, not knowing my dog, to have done this. She did not make any aggressive moves towards him but allowed us to take the dog out of her mouth. Unfortunately the small dog was bleeding from the chest. At this point we did not know who the owner was. I called out to a man standing on his porch across the street if he knew whose dog it was and he ran over, realized it was his neighbor's dog, and ran and got him. When the young man came over he took his shirt off and held it against the dog's chest but did not make a move to get in his car to get to a vet. I explained that his dog ran up to my dog. I encouraged him to hurry and get it to a vet but he didn't move. He told me to "go away" and "leave" twice so I did. I assume the dog died especially since he was not available immediately after this happened to help it, and since he did not make a move to run to a vet. Since there are leash laws and this man was endangering his dog by not paying any attention to its whereabouts outside, I feel that he is liable for the damage my dog caused when it felt under attack by his dog. I was obeying the law with my dog on a leash. Anything could have happened to that dog while he was not paying attention, including getting hit by a car. I'm just wondering what your take on it is. I feel terrible about it, but I don't feel responsible. Thank you for your insight into this situation.

 

[sandyclaus]

What I heard from that was that a dog came running toward your dog. (I'm assuming that the other dog was unleashed and you weren't crossing someone else's property, correct?)

What I DIDN'T hear was that the other dog was aggressive in any way, shape, or form. I heard that YOUR dog grabbed it in it's jaws, but I don't hear any defense - I only hear that your dog was the aggressor and simply lunged at another dog that was coming towards it.

If my instincts are correct, since your dog appears to be the aggressor, and since you SHOULD have been in control of your dog to prevent the aggressive action he/she took, then I feel that you would be at least partly liable for the injuries to the other dog. The fact that the other dog was unleashed and not under the control of their dog may be a mitigating factor for you, in that it wouldn't have approached you if the owner had been aware and in control of their pet.

But let's see what the other seniors have to say about this.

 

[LdiJ]

What I heard from that was that a dog came running toward your dog. (I'm assuming that the other dog was unleashed and you weren't crossing someone else's property, correct?)

What I DIDN'T hear was that the other dog was aggressive in any way, shape, or form. I heard that YOUR dog grabbed it in it's jaws, but I don't hear any defense - I only hear that your dog was the aggressor and simply lunged at another dog that was coming towards it.

If my instincts are correct, since your dog appears to be the aggressor, and since you SHOULD have been in control of your dog to prevent the aggressive action he/she took, then I feel that you would be at least partly liable for the injuries to the other dog. The fact that the other dog was unleashed and not under the control of their dog may be a mitigating factor for you, in that it wouldn't have approached you if the owner had been aware and in control of their pet.

But let's see what the other seniors have to say about this.

I suspect that the loose dog was barking/growling/snapping...in other words, in "attack mode". Unless the other dog was running over to just say hi, which seems unlikely, I wouldn't call a leashed dog the "agressor".

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

There are leash laws for a reason. Your dog felt threatened, I'm assuming.

 

[CJane]

There are leash laws for a reason. Your dog felt threatened, I'm assuming.

It doesn't matter what her dog "felt". Not really.

A leash law is in place to keep animals UNDER CONTROL. If a dog - even when leashed - is so NOT under control that it is able to snatch a much smaller dog off the ground, shake it forcefully and then have to have its jaws PRIED OPEN before releasing the smaller dog... there's a huge problem.

OPs dog may have been on a leash. OPs dog was clearly NOT under OPs control. And THAT is OPs fault.

And we don't know if OPs municipality HAS a leash law. Many do not.

 

[Zigner]

It doesn't matter what her dog "felt". Not really.

A leash law is in place to keep animals UNDER CONTROL. If a dog - even when leashed - is so NOT under control that it is able to snatch a much smaller dog off the ground, shake it forcefully and then have to have its jaws PRIED OPEN before releasing the smaller dog... there's a huge problem.

OPs dog may have been on a leash. OPs dog was clearly NOT under OPs control. And THAT is OPs fault.

And we don't know if OPs municipality HAS a leash law. Many do not.

Whoa, slow down there. The leashed dog was approached/attacked by an UNLEASHED dog.

 

[CdwJava]

I am unfamiliar with any CA municipality that does NOT have a leash law, but I suppose there might be a couple.

And, I'm sorry, but even with tight control of your dog, if you have another animal running up and yipping and snapping, it may be impossible to restrain your dog from taking a bite out of another.

I strongly suspect that the party whose dog was unrestrained as likely required by local ordinance will be liable for any damages ... assuming, of course, any claim is ever made.

But, since the OP was told to leave and no information was exchanged, it appears the issue of legal liability may be moot.

 

[CJane]

Whoa, slow down there. The leashed dog was approached/attacked by an UNLEASHED dog.

Yes.

And if I'm out walking my mastiff and some yappy little terrier comes running up to him, and he grabs that terrier and shakes it like a toy, and then needs his face pried open to free the other dog? Then there's a problem with MY DOG. *I am responsible for controlling my dog. If I can't do that - ESPECIALLY when he's on leash - and I don't even have enough control over him to take something he shouldn't have away from him without physical force? Then I am an irresponsible pet owner.

 

[Zigner]

Yes.

And if I'm out walking my mastiff and some yappy little terrier comes running up to him, and he grabs that terrier and shakes it like a toy, and then needs his face pried open to free the other dog? Then there's a problem with MY DOG. *I am responsible for controlling my dog. If I can't do that - ESPECIALLY when he's on leash - and I don't even have enough control over him to take something he shouldn't have away from him without physical force? Then I am an irresponsible pet owner.

Are we talking about perceptions of responsible pet ownership, or the law? Legally speaking, if an unleashed dog attacks a leashed dog, guess which owner is responsible...

 

[tranquility]

I rescued a pit...excuse me, a "lab mix" from the pound. Sweetest thing ever. However, there is a HUGE difference on how she would react to a dog running at her when she is on a leash as compared to when she is at the dog park. I don't know dog psychology, but the limiting factor of the leash seems to have her react more assertively. While I can't imagine her taking another dog and kill or substantively injure it for running up, I CAN imagine a little dog showing aggression who got behind her (Because of her limited ability to turn quickly.) could have a problem. It's not a matter of anything but instinct.

This is not a picture of a ninja dog about to pounce...
http://i.imgur.com/iDXmX.jpg

 

[CJane]

OP did not sayher dog was attacked. OP never stated that the other dog did anything except 'run toward' OP's dog.

According to the original post, the only dog that behaved violently was OP's dog.

And since we don't know if there's a leash law, or how the law might be written, we can't know whether OP might be at least partially liable for any property damage, or whether OP's dog should be reported as a vicious animal.

As an example, the 'leash law' in my town says that all dogs must remain under the control of a person at all times - whether leashed or not - and must be prevented from behaving in an aggressive or threatening manner when on public property.

 

[tranquility]

And since we don't know if there's a leash law, or how the law might be written, we can't know whether OP might be at least partially liable for any property damage, or whether OP's dog should be reported as a vicious animal.

So, if I were to understand your theory of dog ownership:

If I had a large dog who had a habit of jumping up on people and I had a daughter who weighed less than the dog to hold the leash and there was a local ordinance requiring a leash and the "control" of the animal, if the dog did actually jump up on a person, causing damages, I (or the daughter) would be responsible?

(Before you answer, think.)

 

[rpaul9578]

To respond

Thank you for your thoughts and I appreciate anything further. My dog has dog aggression issues and was that way when I got her. I have spent nearly $1500 so far on her training and she is doing much better, so much so that my trainer had her in with other dogs when I was traveling the last few times. However she has the tendency to revert back to her fear behavior of attacking when she feels threatened. Whether the dog crossed the street to us in play or aggression I don't know. I saw it all of 3 seconds before this happened. Although I should have been able to stop her, with where we are at in her training, and me not anticipating this situation, I sadly could not. She is very strong. I am continuing her training so as to continue working with her to stop this behavior. Although she clearly does need more training, which she is getting, I am far from irresponsible with her. I do everything I can to protect other dogs from her, other people have to do their part also in obeying leash laws and being aware of what their dog is doing.

 

[rpaul9578]

California code

I was just reading the california code and it stated that dogs must be on a leash or be subject to fine. It does not state on a leash and under control. However, there is something about being classified as a ”potentially dangerous dog” that states ” Any dog which, when unprovoked, has killed, seriously bitten, inflicted injury, or otherwise caused injury to a domestic animal off the property of the owner or custodian.” However, she was not unprovoked...she was provoked by a dog running at full speed at her. My being unable to control my dog's response, as bad as that may be, seems mitigated by the provoked attack and breaking of the leash law. Additionally, I can prove previous and continued training to decrease the risk she poses to other dogs.

 

[CJane]

So, if I were to understand your theory of dog ownership:

If I had a large dog who had a habit of jumping up on people and I had a daughter who weighed less than the dog to hold the leash and there was a local ordinance requiring a leash and the "control" of the animal, if the dog did actually jump up on a person, causing damages, I (or the daughter) would be responsible?

(Before you answer, think.)

If the ordinance states that the dog must be 1) Under control and 2) prevented from behaving in an aggressive or threatening manner while on public property, and you violated that ordinance by turning the dog over to someone who could not control the dog, and as a result the dog injured someone or caused damage? Yeah, you're responsible. You violated the ordinance by not having the dog under control.

Why is that hard to understand?

My Mastiff easily outweighs me. He fo' sho' outweighs all three of my kids. He's also completely aggression free. And supremely confident, so there are no issues with fear-biting/attacking. But if I send my kids out to walk the dog, and they DO lose control of him, or he DOES behave aggressively, or threateningly -- you can bet the Sheriff is going to be issuing me a citation. Happened to the neighbor whose dog was on a tie out. The dog ran to the end of his tie, which just happened to be on the public sidewalk, and no longer on the property of the owner. Tie out was about 6" too long. They were cited for their dog "Behaving aggressively on public property". They argued that the dog was "responding to a perceived threat on his property". Unfortunately for them, the dog was standing on the sidewalk.

Apparently, OP's ordinance requires only a leash. Not control. Good for her.

As a responsible pet owner, she really ought to consider rehoming the dog with someone who CAN control it though. Before someone gets hurt, or it does attack someone/another dog, and her theory that approach = provoke doesn't hold up.