Is there any way to prevent someone from suing that got hurt on your property? HELP!

[gotaquestion123]

That's actually NOT true, the health insurance company can NOT pursue a third party on their own for reimbursement. They can only subrogate if the injured party receives a settlement or a judgement.

So, are you saying, if the person that was injured chose NOT to pursue, the health insurance company has no right to pursue?

So basically, if the person that was injured DID NOT sue, then you are good and clear?

 

[CSO286]

So, are you saying, if the person that was injured chose NOT to pursue, the health insurance company has no right to pursue?

So basically, if the person that was injured DID NOT sue, then you are good and clear?

no....look at like this: Dude gets hurt at your house. Goes to hospital and gets treated. Hospital files the claim with his insurance company. Insurance company requests more info to process the claim--where it injury occur? How? Etc....

They find out the due got hurt doing extreme sports at your house. Insurance company might pay the claim, but you can bet you last buck they will be coming after you for running a mixed marital arts studio/ring/whathaveyou out of you home without proper insurance.

See, insurance companies don;t like to pay--and won't--if they think someone else is supposed to be on the hook.

So, if the insurance company denies the claim based on that kind of info (which they legitimately can do, because they feel someone else is liable to pay), then no one paid your buddy's hospital bills. Bet you buddy won't be too thrilled with you anymore.....

 

[gotaquestion123]

no....look at like this: Dude gets hurt at your house. Goes to hospital and gets treated. Hospital files the claim with his insurance company. Insurance company requests more info to process the claim--where it injury occur? How? Etc....

They find out the due got hurt doing extreme sports at your house. Insurance company might pay the claim, but you can bet you last buck they will be coming after you for running a mixed marital arts studio/ring/whathaveyou out of you home without proper insurance.

See, insurance companies don;t like to pay--and won't--if they think someone else is supposed to be on the hook.

So, if the insurance company denies the claim based on that kind of info (which they legitimately can do, because they feel someone else is liable to pay), then no one paid your buddy's hospital bills. Bet you buddy won't be too thrilled with you anymore.....

Ok, so if the insurance company denies his claim, can anyone go after me besides the person who got hurt? The guy who previously answered my question made it sound like the insurance company CANNOT go after me (third party) for anything. I understand "my buddy" won't be too thrilled with me, but it would have been his choice and own free will to participate. No one would've forced him to do anything.

 

[gotaquestion123]

Yes you can have a waiver signed; see an attny for the verbage needed ... a simple statement will not suffice.

Have fun!

So, are you saying, with certainty, that if I saw an attorney and he wrote a waiver, and they signed it, I would be clear of having to cover any injury related costs? Do you know this for sure?

Also, thanks for the "Have fun!", everyone else seems to be saying the only way to prevent this is to not get one. haha

 

[Willlyjo]

no....look at like this: Dude gets hurt at your house. Goes to hospital and gets treated. Hospital files the claim with his insurance company. Insurance company requests more info to process the claim--where it injury occur? How? Etc....

They find out the due got hurt doing extreme sports at your house. Insurance company might pay the claim, but you can bet you last buck they will be coming after you for running a mixed marital arts studio/ring/whathaveyou out of you home without proper insurance.

See, insurance companies don;t like to pay--and won't--if they think someone else is supposed to be on the hook.

So, if the insurance company denies the claim based on that kind of info (which they legitimately can do, because they feel someone else is liable to pay), then no one paid your buddy's hospital bills. Bet you buddy won't be too thrilled with you anymore.....

And...if the OP's buddy was made to sign a waiver AND prove he had accident insurance before being allowed to practice MMA on his property, that would go a long way toward protecting his liability when or if someone gets hurt practicing MMA on his property.

As far as the buddy having accident insurance, most policies don't underwrite or single out exclusions such as MMA training or workouts. Case in point, I got elbowed in the face and had 7 stitches under the eye during wrestling practice in high school. My coach took me to emergency and I was treated. My parent's insurance coverage took care of the bill.

Any insurance company that DONT pay for an injury that is covered as an accidental injury, is looking at BAD FAITH for a breach of the policy contract.

It could very well be that once the buddy's insurance does cover his injuries, they may amend his policy to exclude coverage for future MMA activities, however this is a moot point at this time.

 

[CJane]

So, are you saying, with certainty, that if I saw an attorney and he wrote a waiver, and they signed it, I would be clear of having to cover any injury related costs? Do you know this for sure?

Also, thanks for the "Have fun!", everyone else seems to be saying the only way to prevent this is to not get one. haha

No.

Even in cases where statute "protects" people against liability for injury, this is not true.

An example:

A stable offers trail rides. Statute says that people who voluntarily participate in activities that are inherently dangerous (not the exact wording, but I'm not looking it up and it's close enough) are liable for any injuries they suffer, and the provider of the service is not. In addition to this statute that protects the provider of the service, the stable owners ALSO have everyone who participates in a trail ride sign a hold harmless agreement, stating that they understand that horses are big, dangerous creatures, and they're ok with that, and if they get hurt they understand that it's no one's fault and the farm is not responsible.

Someone gets hurt. If they can prove negligence? They can win a law suit. The statute AND the hold harmless only protect the owners of the farm and the farm itself from liability if there is no negligence at all.

And so, the stable ALSO carries liability insurance which will cover any associated costs due to injury/negligence.

There is no way that you can install something like this in your back yard and let other people use it, and be assured that you'd be protected from liability just because they signed a waiver.

 

[CJane]

As far as the buddy having accident insurance, most policies don't underwrite or single out exclusions such as MMA training or workouts.

Let's think of worst case scenario though - and someone dies. MANY life insurance policies include exclusions for death during participation in extreme sports. Mine has an exclusion specifically for rodeos, for some bizarre reason.

(Though I wonder if that means it won't pay out if I'm killed by a rodeo clown...)

 

[gotaquestion123]

And...if the OP's buddy was made to sign a waiver AND prove he had accident insurance before being allowed to practice MMA on his property, that would go a long way toward protecting his liability when or if someone gets hurt practicing MMA on his property.

As far as the buddy having accident insurance, most policies don't underwrite or single out exclusions such as MMA training or workouts. Case in point, I got elbowed in the face and had 7 stitches under the eye during wrestling practice in high school. My coach took me to emergency and I was treated. My parent's insurance coverage took care of the bill.

Any insurance company that DONT pay for an injury that is covered as an accidental injury, is looking at BAD FAITH for a breach of the policy contract.

It could very well be that once the buddy's insurance does cover his injuries, they may amend his policy to exclude coverage for future MMA activities, however this is a moot point at this time.

So, if I understand what you are saying, if my buddy signs a waiver AND proves to me that he has accident health insurance, I should be OK.

Do you know if anyone (attorney, lawyer etc) has to be present when the person signs the waiver? Or is having his signature on a write-up sufficient?

 

[gotaquestion123]

No.

Even in cases where statute "protects" people against liability for injury, this is not true.

An example:

A stable offers trail rides. Statute says that people who voluntarily participate in activities that are inherently dangerous (not the exact wording, but I'm not looking it up and it's close enough) are liable for any injuries they suffer, and the provider of the service is not. In addition to this statute that protects the provider of the service, the stable owners ALSO have everyone who participates in a trail ride sign a hold harmless agreement, stating that they understand that horses are big, dangerous creatures, and they're ok with that, and if they get hurt they understand that it's no one's fault and the farm is not responsible.

Someone gets hurt. If they can prove negligence? They can win a law suit. The statute AND the hold harmless only protect the owners of the farm and the farm itself from liability if there is no negligence at all.

And so, the stable ALSO carries liability insurance which will cover any associated costs due to injury/negligence.

There is no way that you can install something like this in your back yard and let other people use it, and be assured that you'd be protected from liability just because they signed a waiver.

OK - good explanation. So, I can be pretty well covered, but not entirely because there are always small exceptions and loopholes.

What if the person injured DOES NOT file anything against me? Can anyone else go after me? (His insurance company, the hospital, etc???) I thought someone else said that they could not, but I'm not sure if I understood his post entirely.

 

[ecmst12]

I repeat - a health insurance company CAN NOT sue a third party on behalf of their insured. The injured party is the ONLY one who can pursue the action - if they choose not to, the health insurance company has no recourse.

 

[Willlyjo]

So, if I understand what you are saying, if my buddy signs a waiver AND proves to me that he has accident health insurance, I should be OK.

Do you know if anyone (attorney, lawyer etc) has to be present when the person signs the waiver? Or is having his signature on a write-up sufficient?

You should be as okay as anyone concerning any litigation (taking into consideration anyone can sue anyone for anything).

An effective waiver is any waiver that is signed by the one who participates in said activities. Also, like I said, a copy of an active insurance policy that covers costs of treatment for accidental injuries by each participant working out with your MMA equipment, would pretty much take liability away from you.

It would be a good idea to make your HOI aware of these requirements you impose on your friends before they can participate even on a casual level such as it seems this is. Then your HOI will probably allow it knowing that you've reasonably protected your liability as well as their's.

 

[gotaquestion123]

I repeat - a health insurance company CAN NOT sue a third party on behalf of their insured. The injured party is the ONLY one who can pursue the action - if they choose not to, the health insurance company has no recourse.

Thanks for the info. How about the actual Hospital? Can they? Or is that all through the person's health insurance and the Hospital isn't even in the equation?

 

[gotaquestion123]

You should be as okay as anyone concerning any litigation (taking into consideration anyone can sue anyone for anything).

An effective waiver is any waiver that is signed by the one who participates in said activities. Also, like I said, a copy of an active insurance policy that covers costs of treatment for accidental injuries by each participant working out with your MMA equipment, would pretty much take liability away from you.

It would be a good idea to make your HOI aware of these requirements you impose on your friends before they can participate even on a casual level such as it seems this is. Then your HOI will probably allow it knowing that you've reasonably protected your liability as well as their's.

Thank you for all your info. You've been very helpful thus far. Do you know what an appropriate waiver might look like/be worded?

 

[ecmst12]

The only person that a hospital can sue directly is the patient, if the bill is not paid.

 

[Ozark_Sophist]

So, if I understand what you are saying, if my buddy signs a waiver AND proves to me that he has accident health insurance, I should be OK.

No. The trail ride example is a situation where the (some) state has legislated limits to liability for participation in the activity. Yet, an owner of a trail ride operation can still be successfully sued even though there a wavier was obtained and a state statute limiting liability. The wavier and statute raise the threshold of establishing liability but do not prevent a successful lawsuit.

You need to make sure what you planning is legal (to code) for your home because if it isn't, it won't matter how many waviers you obtain.
You also need to talk to your insurance company about your plans. Waviers won't stop suits and defending them is expensive (even if you 'win').

If one of your friends becomes permanently disabled, friendship goes out the window in favor of survival. A new wheelchair accessible van costs $50 to $60,000. Retrofitting a home (building a ramp, widening doors, roll-in shower, adaptive equipment in kitchen and bath) can run that much or more. Medical expenses are covered to a point--but if extensive rehab is needed, insurance may not cover that. Loss of earnings capacity, etc. Defending a suit in those circumstances will be expensive even if you win (and realize when you win, your friend loses. If you expect your friends not to sue you, accept the responsibility to have insurance to help them if they do get injured on your property).