Two Guys Walk Into a Bar...

[LACowboyz]

Two known convicted white supremacist gang members are allowed into a bar by a security guard (who were thrown out on St. Patrick's Day for violence against customers, the SAME security guard AND the security guard's girlfriend). Upon entry, the gang members were thrown out AGAIN. As the gang members were leaving the private parking lot, one of them assaulted a man on a motorcycle (who was parked in the private lot next to the bar), claiming that his bike was not American made. The victim fell to the ground , and the bike fell on him. The security guard could have easily intervened, but didn't. There were no serious physical injuries, but there was $750+ damage to the bike.

Who's accountable?

 

[FlyingRon]

The guys who caused the damage. The bar is not responsible for trespassers.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

Your teacher, who set up the scenario.

 

[Zigner]

Two Guys Walk Into a Bar...

My advice would be for them to duck next time.

 

[Eekamouse]

One of these days, a post will show up, "A lazy law student didn't feel like doing his/her homework, so instead decided to go to a legal advice board to try to get others to do the research for them. The lazy law student eventually dropped out of law school and then went on to a life of asking people if they want fries with that. Who is at fault?"

 

[Adam G]

Two known convicted white supremacist gang members are allowed into a bar by a security guard (who were thrown out on St. Patrick's Day for violence against customers, the SAME security guard AND the security guard's girlfriend). Upon entry, the gang members were thrown out AGAIN. As the gang members were leaving the private parking lot, one of them assaulted a man on a motorcycle (who was parked in the private lot next to the bar), claiming that his bike was not American made. The victim fell to the ground , and the bike fell on him. The security guard could have easily intervened, but didn't. There were no serious physical injuries, but there was $750+ damage to the bike.

Who's accountable?

Found this online. This is my understanding of the law re landowner's duty to invitees

In negligent security cases, it is only necessary the landowner be able to foresee that some injury will likely result in some manner as a result of his negligence. Allegations of prior criminal acts in the area are pertinent to determining foreseeability, and police records of reported crimes in the geographical area are admissible evidence on this issue. Crimes against both persons and property may establish foreseeability. Property crimes very often are stepping stones to crimes against persons; someone burglarizing a car who is surprised in the middle of the act by the car’s owner may assault the owner.

 

[LACowboyz]

I was the victim.

I think it's better not to judge until all evidence is presented, correct? I was assaulted last night at 11:37pm outside a respectable country dance hall bar in Southern California. These guys had no motive other than pure hate. And the security guard just stood there and watched while I was physically and psychologically abused. My bike looks like ****, and I'll probably have to testify against these *******s in court.

I really need some support here. I hope you guys can pull together and give me some good advice.

 

[Adam G]

I think it's better not to judge until all evidence is presented, correct? I was assaulted last night at 11:37pm outside a respectable country dance hall bar in Southern California. These guys had no motive other than pure hate. And the security guard just stood there and watched while I was physically and psychologically abused. My bike looks like ****, and I'll probably have to testify against these *******s in court.

I really need some support here. I hope you guys can pull together and give me some good advice.

The problem is that you don't really have any damages. If you did then you might have an incentive to roll the dice with a lawsuit, but that isn't the case.

 

[justalayman]

who owned this private lot?

why do you claim the guard could have intervened? Unless he was extremely close, it sounds like it would not be possible.

did the gang members commit any acts of violence, that night, prior to knocking over your foreign bike?

although adamg's post seems to suggest liability on the bar owner, generally, a single incident is generally not adequate to be considered warning to the bar owner there is a problem that places a duty upon them to act in some fashion.

And the security guard just stood there and watched while I was physically and psychologically abused.

you said the knocked you and your bike over. That takes but an instant. Just what do you believe the guard should have done? They had already ejected them from the bar.

 

[LACowboyz]

who owned this private lot?

why do you claim the guard could have intervened? Unless he was extremely close, it sounds like it would not be possible.

did the gang members commit any acts of violence, that night, prior to knocking over your foreign bike?

although adamg's post seems to suggest liability on the bar owner, generally, a single incident is generally not adequate to be considered warning to the bar owner there is a problem that places a duty upon them to act in some fashion.

you said the knocked you and your bike over. That takes but an instant. Just what do you believe the guard should have done? They had already ejected them from the bar.

1. The bar owns the lot. It's attached to the back of the bar (it's a back entrance, not street side).
2. The security guard was standing near us and had his arms crossed. He didn't even say anything to the guy, nor did he try to get in-between
3. I don't know if they committed other crimes that night.
4. They were driving away in their car when one of them decided to get out and start trouble.
5. The guard should have deflected the gang member when he saw him come at me. He just stood there like an idiot.
6. The security guard didn't intervene because he said that the SAME guy pulled out a knife last time.
7. Everything was recorded on camera.

Based on what happened, my 85-year old grandmother could be a security guard. When I worked at a prison, it was my job to intervene. Sometimes I had minor injuries, but I never allowed the victim to suffer unnecessarily. Security is supposed to prevent danger, loss, crime, and damage. Based on the facts, the guard failed to prevent and intervene. He knowingly allowed the SAME guys into the bar because he had no control. He didn't even get the guy's license plate number. A bystander did that for him.

 

[cbg]

The job descripton of a security guard at a bar, and the job description of a security guard at a prison, are not necessarily identical.

 

[justalayman]

LACowboyz;3053205]1. The bar owns the lot. It's attached to the back of the bar (it's a back entrance, not street side).
2. The security guard was standing near us and had his arms crossed. He didn't even say anything to the guy, nor did he try to get in-between

he has no duty to place himself between you and your attacker.

3. I don't know if they committed other crimes that night

.so the guard had no reason to believe they would commit an act of violence

4. They were driving away in their car when one of them decided to get out and start trouble.

and you expect a guard to get in between a guy in a car and you?

5. The guard should have deflected the gang member when he saw him come at me. He just stood there like an idiot.

his job is not to defend you. It is to remove offensive people. He is not a bodyguard. He is a security guard.

6. The security guard didn't intervene because he said that the SAME guy pulled out a knife last time.

sounds like a smart guard. Unless the guard was equipped to defend himself against a guy with a knife (that would require having a gun or trained in some defense techniques that would allow him to intervene relatively safely) he does not have to confront a guy that he believes has and will use a weapon.

7. Everything was recorded on camera.

then there is great evidence against the attacker when this goes to court.

Based on what happened, my 85-year old grandmother could be a security guard. When I worked at a prison, it was my job to intervene. Sometimes I had minor injuries, but I never allowed the victim to suffer unnecessarily. Security is supposed to prevent danger, loss, crime, and damage. Based on the facts, the guard failed to prevent and intervene.

You are mistaking a security guard and associated duties with a prison guard and their associated duties. They are very different.

He knowingly allowed the SAME guys into the bar because he had no control.

You said he booted them and that is why they were in the lot when they were. Make up your mind.

He didn't even get the guy's license plate number.

did you?

A bystander did that for him.

You mean; for you

 

[CdwJava]

I think it's better not to judge until all evidence is presented, correct? I was assaulted last night at 11:37pm outside a respectable country dance hall bar in Southern California. These guys had no motive other than pure hate. And the security guard just stood there and watched while I was physically and psychologically abused. My bike looks like ****, and I'll probably have to testify against these *******s in court.

I really need some support here. I hope you guys can pull together and give me some good advice.

The people responsible are the suspects that assaulted you. There is really no legal obligation for bar staff to intervene. In fact, the only advisable action would have been for them to call the police. The axiom for security is "observe and report." Intervention is something that many employers, and most security companies, discourage for a host of liability reasons.

If your attackers are convicted, they will almost certainly be ordered to pay restitution to you.

So, unless you can show where the guard had a LEGAL OBLIGATION to intervene in some way, you're not likely to squeak a penny out of the bar.

Concentrate on extracting justice from the people that attacked you, not the entity that was not responsible (but that you probably figure has greater assets).

 

[CdwJava]

Based on what happened, my 85-year old grandmother could be a security guard.

Yes, she could.

When I worked at a prison, it was my job to intervene.

A state correctional officer is trained, equipped, and expected to intervene when he can do so safely, effctively, and lawfully. This security guard or bouncer was almost certainly not under any such obligation.

Security is supposed to prevent danger, loss, crime, and damage. Based on the facts, the guard failed to prevent and intervene.

His job is generally to observe and report, not to physically engage people. And any obligation he MIGHT have had may have ended at the front door.

He knowingly allowed the SAME guys into the bar because he had no control. He didn't even get the guy's license plate number. A bystander did that for him.

Good for the bystander. But, he has no legal obligation to intervene if you are being attacked, nor is he obligated to act as a witness on your behalf.

 

[ecmst12]

When you testify at the criminal trial, ask the DA about having restitution included in the thug's sentence, for the damage to your bike.