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  1. #1
    cinbad Guest

    Ex refinanced without my consent

    What is the name of your state? New Hampshire

    I just found out that my ex refinanced my mortgage(1998) 2 years after he moved(1996) out and 1 year before we were legally divorced(1999). In the divorce I was awarded the home free and clear of his interest. But it also states when he left (1996) as legal date of separation. It was my savings that paid the downpayment on this house.
    I am on the mortgage as coborrower (I did not have a job at the time, 3 kids), but I was not aware of any of this. I found out when I discovered that my loan has been extended 5 years ($60,000) and the loan amount is for $10000 more than I owed the last time I looked at it. Now he put me through hell (violent). No child support for years and two jobs, psychiatric help for the kids (3) etc. I was not in any shape to question any bills only to find a way to pay them. I claimed bankruptcy in 1999 just before they were going to foreclose.
    I think he may have used his new wife to forge my signature.

    I know this sounds like a silly question, but do I have recourse?

    Should I see a lawyer?
  2. #2
    toasted Guest
    Definitely see an attorney! If your signature was forged you can go to court and not be liable for the loan.

    You had to be aware you were a coborrower because you would have had to sign those papers as well.
  3. #3
    cinbad Guest
    What made me unaware was the fact that my mortgage had been bought and sold several times in the first 3 years without my knowledge, just a note saying "Pay this guy now". When I was told to pay this guy in 1998, I thought nothing of it. Then when I claimed ch13 in 1999 I just did what the lawyer told me to. I was in no shape to question anyone who would help me. I was 2 days before the auction. Plus I was working full time days at one job and Fri and Sat nite 4pm to 4am at a pancake house.

    I truly don't understand all the ramifications of their actions. My husband IS that stupid. He would do something like this even though it sounds unlikely. What are my options? What can I do about it? He has no money.
  4. #4
    toasted Guest
    Whether he has money or not is not your problem. If the loan isn't yours, you cannot be responsible for it and isn't that what you want? Would your mortgage not be lowered?

    You relly do need to see an attorney. If he's that stupid I'm sure they can match him with an equally stupid cellmate.
  5. #5
    cinbad Guest
    The biggest problem I have is..I want to keep my house. Because of my bankruptcy, I can't get another mortgage loan and if he defaults...which he will if he is told to pay it....I will lose my home. Believe me, its not much...but it's all I have. In the bankruptcy I had to claim all of his debts too. It's just not fair. But I am prepared to do what I have to to keep my kids in their home. And to save what equity I have for my retirement. Which I thought was going to be in 2023...now it looks like 2028. I will be 70 years old instead of 65.
  6. #6
    cinbad Guest
    Oh Ya ... and $74,000.00 POORER

    Does anyone have any experience with a case of this kind?
    What would be my recourse?
    Do I renegotiate the divorce?
    Do I file criminal charges?
    Against him or his wife (whom I think forged my signature and posed as me)?
    What would happen to the mortgage? Would I have to get another one...which I couldn't possibly.
    Is the mortgage company responsible for pursuing him?
    Can ANYONE tell me what I can do?
    All I get from lawyers I speak to on the phone is to call them in two weeks when I get the paperwork from the mortgage company.
  7. #7
    HomeGuru is offline Senior Member
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    [QUOTE]Originally posted by toasted
    [B]Whether he has money or not is not your problem. If the loan isn't yours, you cannot be responsible for it and isn't that what you want?

    **A: toasted, this matter is a lot more complex than you realize. It is not as simple as you seem to think it is.
    Since the ex refinanced prior to the divorce, he was still on title at the time. That fact along with the fact that the new refinance mortgage is secured to the writer's property makes it the writer's responsibility. It could be argued that the writer's mortgage liabilty would be only the balance of the extisting mortgage prior to the refi and that being $10K more and 5 years additional payments. So in a best case scenario there is mortgage liability on thepart of the writer.
    In addition, it appears that the ex may not even have deeded his interest in theproperty to the writer but even if he did, the damage had already been done. The ex refinanced and used the property to pull cash out without giving a cent to the writer. But being that BK 13 was filed, the writer most likely had to reafiirm the loan.
    Therefore the writer acknowledged this loan and accepted liability as a mortgagor.
    If someone forged the writer's name on the loan documents that is an entirely separate issue but even if proven would not result in the writer having no mortgage liability whatsoever.
    The ex is a deadbeat anyway so I highly doubt that he would pay the mortgage on a home he does not live in if he is not even paying child support payments. Like the writer said, "He has no money".
    There are other factors but that is enough to prove that what you stated is incorrect.
    Last edited by HomeGuru; 11-18-2002 at 01:16 PM.
  8. #8
    cinbad Guest
    HomeGuru, I am honored to have your assistance,
    He does pay child support. Although I did not take all that I was entitled to, I did manage to have his paycheck attached. In the divorce I was awarded all rights free and clear of his interest to the house.
    As for reaffirming the mortgage, this is a ch13 and will not be discharged until 2004. There has been no paperwork drawn up as to the mortgage except for a stay of foreclosure.
    Are you saying my ex could be liable for the amount that he took from the refinance? My ex does have an annuity of $33,000 and a hefty pension plan $993 mo. that I did not touch in the divorce even though I was entitled.
    Is there any way I could force him to take out a loan for the amount I will be forced to pay in the future and essentially return that money to me?
    Could I file criminal charges against both him and his wife?
    I have no interest in him or his life. We have not seen him since 1999 and do not care anymore. I just want to live my life and move on. Unfortunately, he has taken me for a ride and needs to pay the consequences. This house is all I have to leave to my children and/or pay for my retirement.
  9. #9
    HomeGuru is offline Senior Member
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    You are way over your head in this and have been for several years. Put your foot down for the kids, hire an attorney and take him down.
  10. #10
    cinbad Guest
    HomeGuru,

    My sister, who is a real estate agent just told me I should go after the bank. Since they did not check carefully enough to verify that it was indeed me that signed the refinance, they gave the money away illegally. She tells me that they will have to refund me the money he took from the refinance! Then THEY have to go after him for the money.

    Ideal for me, but could this really happen?
  11. #11
    HomeGuru is offline Senior Member
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    [QUOTE]Originally posted by cinbad
    [B]HomeGuru,

    My sister, who is a real estate agent just told me I should go after the bank. Since they did not check carefully enough to verify that it was indeed me that signed the refinance, they gave the money away illegally.

    **A: highly unlikely. If there was fraud involved ie. someone poses as you and is accompanied by your husband, that person uses a fake ID etc. to sign documents and have signature notarized by notary public; how is it the banks fault in any way? The bank does not require DNA testing, fingerprint verification of a retina scan before loan documents are signed.
    You do not even have the mortgge docs to check out who signed for you. So until you verify this everything is speculative.
    *********



    She tells me that they will have to refund me the money he took from the refinance!

    **A: that's a joke. The bank is not going to refund you any money.
    ************
    Then THEY have to go after him for the money.

    **A: they will also go after you because your name is on title.
    But if they sold the loan to a government backed investment group say Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac, he and his accomplice may be looking at Federal time in prison.
    ***********

    Ideal for me, but could this really happen?

    **A: in your dreams. There will be no open sesame where a door will open and treasures will sparkle.
  12. #12
    cinbad Guest
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by HomeGuru
    [B]
    Originally posted by cinbad
    HomeGuru,

    My sister, who is a real estate agent just told me I should go after the bank. Since they did not check carefully enough to verify that it was indeed me that signed the refinance, they gave the money away illegally.

    **A: highly unlikely. If there was fraud involved ie. someone poses as you and is accompanied by your husband, that person uses a fake ID etc. to sign documents and have signature notarized by notary public; how is it the banks fault in any way? The bank does not require DNA testing, fingerprint verification of a retina scan before loan documents are signed.
    You do not even have the mortgge docs to check out who signed for you. So until you verify this everything is speculative.
    *********

    ---------How do you know they even asked for an ID?
    I know that he had SOMEONE sign for me...I was not there. Someone had to be there in my place or at least sign for me in order for him to get the loan.----------
    ___________________________________________________
    She tells me that they will have to refund me the money he took from the refinance!

    **A: that's a joke. The bank is not going to refund you any money.
    ************
    ----------why would that be a joke? They gave away money fraudulently. This was not through any mistake made by me.-----------------
    __________________________________________________

    Then THEY have to go after him for the money.

    **A: they will also go after you because your name is on title.
    But if they sold the loan to a government backed investment group say Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac, he and his accomplice may be looking at Federal time in prison.
    ***********
    -----------It is a HUD/FHA loan....They cannot go after me because I am the victim of their negligence. He defrauded THEM, not me. what if i gave a check to someone to mail for me and that person cashed it? Would the bank have to go after them for the money?--------
    ____________________________________________________
    Ideal for me, but could this really happen?

    **A: in your dreams. There will be no open sesame where a door will open and treasures will sparkle.

    -------------It may take some time, but I was taken for a lot of money and it was not through anything I did. Someone will pay and it will not be me or my family. -----------
    I am sure when he got that huge check..his eyes were sparkling!
    Mine will when I see him pay for this.

  13. #13
    HomeGuru is offline Senior Member
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    The mortgage document requires notarized signatures thus the notary public must request an ID. If someone signed for you then it was either an imposter or your ex forged a power of attorney and signed for both you and him.
    When you actually get the mortgage docs and can confirm who actually signed for you, post again.
  14. #14
    cinbad Guest

    I don't understand something HomeGuru

    Why didn't you tell me I should notify the DA's office? Or that in cases such as this...the lawyer who handled the refinance has liability insurance that will cover this? I realize that I should get a copy of the documents first to bring as proof. I also know now that I should get a civil lawyer to attempt to get the money back from him before I bring it to the DA.

    HomeGuru, I am looking with sparkles in my eyes *-*. And my ex is looking at a jail term.

    The reason I am posting this is for anyone else who may be in this situation. I am sure this is not the first time something like this has happened and if someone needs this advice...it is here.
  15. #15
    HomeGuru is offline Senior Member
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    Re: I don't understand something HomeGuru

    [QUOTE]Originally posted by cinbad
    [B]Why didn't you tell me I should notify the DA's office?

    **A: becasue thus far you have not provided any hard evidence that a crime has actually been committed.
    I was waiting 2 weeks when you got the paperwork from the mortgage company. On the other hand, you could have asked me, "why didn't you tell me I should just get a gun and blow my ex away.
    ***********


    Or that in cases such as this...the lawyer who handled the refinance has liability insurance that will cover this?

    **A: because you never stated that a lawyer handled the refinance or if a lawyer did, that the lawyer even carried errors and ommissions insurance at the time of the refinance. And you certainly did not state that the lawyer was involved in any type of action to commit a fraud.
    **************


    I realize that I should get a copy of the documents first to bring as proof.

    **A: well duh. Were is your proof and evidence of wrong doing otherwise.
    *************
    I also know now that I should get a civil lawyer to attempt to get the money back from him before I bring it to the DA.

    **A: did I ever mention hire an attorney and take him down?
    *****************
    HomeGuru, I am looking with sparkles in my eyes *-*. And my ex is looking at a jail term.

    **A: that's nice. And I am looking at my computer monitor, scratching my head saying, "where is the evidence Sherlock?"
    ****************
    The reason I am posting this is for anyone else who may be in this situation. I am sure this is not the first time something like this has happened and if someone needs this advice...it is here.

    **A: ok, very thoughtful of you.
    I also noticed your new thread in the contracts forum.
    So what your ex did is a cin and it is bad, but cinbad where's the smoking gun?

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