HOA and property transfer fee

[toxoman]

What is the name of your state? Virginia

Board recently instituted a "rule" that upon property transfer $500 is due to the association (for reserves) from the buyer.

The CC&R's do not explicitly allow this, BUT the board and general counsel say that they can do this under the "rule" making section of the declarations. (Rules must be to govern the use of common areas and facilities.)

I suppose that the rule might be interpreted as in order to use the common property one must pay. I also thought of rules as such things as hours of operation, safety guidelines, etc...

What say yee?

[seniorjudge]

Originally Posted by toxoman

What is the name of your state? Virginia

Board recently instituted a "rule" that upon property transfer $500 is due to the association (for reserves) from the buyer.

The CC&R's do not explicitly allow this, BUT the board and general counsel say that they can do this under the "rule" making section of the declarations. (Rules must be to govern the use of common areas and facilities.)

I suppose that the rule might be interpreted as in order to use the common property one must pay. I also thought of rules as such things as hours of operation, safety guidelines, etc...

What say yee?

Q: What say yee?

A: There is now a recently-instituted "rule" that upon property transfer $500 is due to the association (for reserves) from the buyer.

[toxoman]

Touche.

I will be more specific. Is a legal definition of what a "rule" is? If so, what is the definition.

Furthurmore, does this sound like something that is contestable and winnable in court?

[seniorjudge]

Originally Posted by toxoman

Touche.

I will be more specific. Is a legal definition of what a "rule" is? If so, what is the definition.

Furthurmore, does this sound like something that is contestable and winnable in court? No

Definitions of rule on the Web:

* a principle or condition that customarily governs behavior; "it was his rule to take a walk before breakfast"; "short haircuts were the regulation"
* convention: something regarded as a normative example; "the convention of not naming the main character"; "violence is the rule not the exception"; "his formula for impressing visitors"
* prescribed guide for conduct or action
* (linguistics) a rule describing (or prescribing) a linguistic practice
* principle: a basic generalization that is accepted as true and that can be used as a basis for reasoning or conduct; "their principles of composition characterized all their works"
* govern: exercise authority over; as of nations; "Who is governing the country now?"
* principle: a rule or law concerning a natural phenomenon or the function of a complex system; "the principle of the conservation of mass"; "the principle of jet propulsion"; "the right-hand rule for inductive fields"
* the duration of a monarch's or government's power; "during the rule of Elizabeth"
* decide with authority; "The King decreed that all firstborn males should be killed"
* dominion: dominance or power through legal authority; "France held undisputed dominion over vast areas of Africa"; "the rule of Caesar"
* predominate: be larger in number, quantity, power, status or importance; "Money reigns supreme here"; "Hispanics predominate in this neighborhood"
* decide on and make a declaration about; "find someone guilty"
* directions that define the way a game or sport is to be conducted; "he knew the rules of chess"
* any one of a systematic body of regulations defining the way of life of members of a religious order; "the rule of St. Dominic"
* have an affinity with; of signs of the zodiac
* mark or draw with a ruler; "rule the margins"
* (mathematics) a standard procedure for solving a class of mathematical problems; "he determined the upper bound with Descartes' rule of signs"; "he gave us a general formula for attacking polynomials"
* keep in check; "rule one's temper"
* measuring stick consisting of a strip of wood or metal or plastic with a straight edge that is used for drawing straight lines and measuring lengths
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

* A vertical or horizontal straight line of specific thickness that is used to accent a design.
[url]www.relyprint.com/help_dictionary.html[/url]

* a line used to separate elements on a page
open-site.org/Arts/Literature/Typography/Terminology/

* Instructions on the time and substance of debate on a bill, attached to the bill when reported out to the floor by the House Rules Committee.
[url]www.nvfc.org/leg/wglossary.html[/url]

* a principle guiding action. For Kant, concepts are rules, the understanding is the faculty of rules, and our use of rules is central to our account of objectivity. Much of Wittgenstein's discussion of following a rule runs parallel to the Kantian insight that rules do not determine their own application. ...
[url]www.filosofia.net/materiales/rec/glosaen.htm[/url]

* ("3-to-1 Rule") Rule-of-thumb ratio for the minimum distance mics should be spaced apart ("3 times X"), compared to their distance from the sound source ("X"). See also Phase Cancellation.
[url]www.kareoke.com/glossary/microphone_glossary_of_terms.htm[/url]

* A declaration (eg 'font-family: helvetica') and its selector (eg 'H1').
[url]www.cs.indiana.edu/elisp/w3/docs/w3_17.html[/url]

* A "rule" is a standard, statement or procedure, other than a policy or regulation, adopted by an academic or administrative unit of NC State University pursuant to specific authority granted in an NC State University policy or regulation. A rule that is adopted by a unit must be approved by the executive officer to whom the unit reports.
[url]www.ncsu.edu/policies/definitions.php[/url]

* A specific condition associated with SelfAssign, Turnback, etc. that must be true in order for the action requested to continue. EG The "Available" Rule verifies that the Position being requested is not already assigned to another Referee.
[url]www.wcsra.org/terminology.php[/url]

* A rule of procedure that a Court must follow, related to a specific Act. Rules are made by a lawful judiciary authority.
[url]www.courts.govt.nz/maorilandcourt/glossary.htm[/url]

* a graduated strip of metal or wood used for measuring length.
[url]www.pilgrimhall.org/tools.htm[/url]

* A line of varying thickness used for graphic effect in a page layout.
[url]www.rainwater.com/glossary/r.html[/url]

* The term has two specific legislative meanings.
[url]www.gmhc.org/policy/activism/political_glossary.html[/url]

* A "rule" is any universally-quantified proposition, ie, a proposition of the form (forall (?x1 ... ?xn) <logical sentence with free variables ?x1 ... ?xn) . PowerLoom supports several different syntactic constructs for defining rules. (See also Forward Rule and Backward Rule).
[url]www.isi.edu/isd/LOOM/PowerLoom/documentation/manual/manual_12.html[/url]

* A printing term for a straight line; usually produced with a roll of border tape.
highered.mcgraw-hill.com/sites/0072407611/student_view0/glossary.html

* a Rule of Civil Procedure promulgated by the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania under the authority of Article V, Section 10(c) of the Constitution of 1968 or of any Act of Assembly;
members.aol.com/RulesPA/C.076.html

* A clause that defines the relationship or relationships between facts and objects.
[url]www.pcai.com/web/glossary/pcai_p_s_glossary.html[/url]

* a mathematical expression that describes a pattern or relationship, or a written description of the pattern or relationship.
aplacetolearnaplacetogrow.com/math_stuff/fcat%20math%20glossary.htm

* A law or regulation that governs behavior, actions, or operations. In rule-based systems, only those rules with true antecedents are used. For example, a rule that begins “IF the temperature is less than 0°C . . . ” is ignored whenever the measured temperature is 0°C or higher. See IF–THEN rule, production rule, antecedent, consequent.
amsglossary.allenpress.com/glossary/browse

* A rule is the set of operations that have to be performed with data to decide if it satisfies a constraint or not.
[url]www.hybrow.org/Docs/Glossary.html[/url]

* A rule for microphone placement: space microphones at least three times the mic-to-source distance. For example, if two mics are each placed one foot from their sound sources, they should be at least three feet apart. This method prevents the blurred, colored sound caused by phase cancellation between microphones.
[url]www.dilettantesdictionary.com/index.php[/url]

* A typesetting term for a printed line.
et2.springer-ny.com/authors/glossary_text.html

* A data-driven programming construct-associated with a class-consisting of a condition and action. A rule's action is executed ("fired") when its condition is satisfied by objects in memory. A rule whose condition references only the "this" object is termed an intra-object rule, otherwise an inter-object rule. Sometimes called a "production" or "production rule".
[url]www.research.att.com/sw/tools/r++/user_manual/glossary.html[/url]

* decorative or straight line across the page.
[url]www.pnl.gov/ag/usage/pubterm.html[/url]

* In June 2000, The National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) adopted a rule prohibiting the "take" of salmon and steelhead listed as threatened under the Endangered Species Act (ESA). NMFS adopted the take rule under section 4(d) of the ESA. This rule prohibits anyone from taking a listed salmon or steelhead, except in cases where the take is associated with an approved program. ...
[url]www.parks.ci.portland.or.us/IPM/ipm_glossary.htm[/url]

* An authoritative statement of what may or may not be done; a regulation. (2)
[url]www.nplnews.com/fedregister/glossary-terms.html[/url]

[Ohiogal]

Ask and yee shall receive.

[HomeGuru]

Originally Posted by toxoman

What is the name of your state? Virginia

Board recently instituted a "rule" that upon property transfer $500 is due to the association (for reserves) from the buyer.

The CC&R's do not explicitly allow this, BUT the board and general counsel say that they can do this under the "rule" making section of the declarations. (Rules must be to govern the use of common areas and facilities.)

I suppose that the rule might be interpreted as in order to use the common property one must pay. I also thought of rules as such things as hours of operation, safety guidelines, etc...

What say yee?

**A: please post the section of this so called "rule" direct from the Declara†ion.

[toxoman]

OK.

The rule that was made by the board has in it a reference to a section of the Declaration that gives the board the power to make rules. Here is the section from the Declaration:

By a majority vote the Board, the Association may, from time to time and subject to the provisions of this Declaration adopt, amend, and repeal rules and regulations to be known as "HOA Rules". The HOA Rules will govern the use of any common area by any Owner, by the family of such Owner, or by any invitee, licensee or lessee of such Owner, provided, however, that the HOA Rules may not discriminate among Owners and shall not be inconsistent with this Declaration, the Articles, or By-Laws. {more stuff follows that has to do with access to the Rules and where they and kept and how we get copies, etc}

What the board did was to create a "rule" that upon property transfer $500 would go to reserves at settlement. This was recorded at the courthouse along with wording causing a continuing lien on each property (over 7000 properties).

It should be noted that nowhere in the Declaration, Articles or By-Laws is a property transfer fee authorized. The only mention of a continuing lien is in the sections dealing with annual assessments and special assessments.

The president of the board admitted to me verbally that the reason they did not do a special assessment is that they never would been able to get the votes to pass it. A special assessment would have taken a super majority of a quorum.

[toxoman]

The actual rule that was recorded is:

1. Upon transfer of ownership of a Lot, through sale, foreclosure, or other means, the purchaser shall be responsible for payment of a contribution to reserves ("Reserve Contribution") of $500.00, or such amount as determined by the Board.

2. The Reserve Contribution shall be due and payable to "HOA" at the time of settlement on the Lot.

3. Failure to pay the Reserve Contribution shall be enforced in the same manner as a failure to pay the annual assessment provided in Article VII, Section 1 of the Declaration, and shall constitute a continuing lien upon the Lot until paid in full.

Note that this not in the Declaration but merely a "rule" that the board made up and recorded on our deeds.

[HomeGuru]

I do not see a problem here.

[Some Random Guy]

If you want it changed, rally the homeowners and run for the board next year.

[HomeGuru]

Originally Posted by Some Random Guy

If you want it changed, rally the homeowners and run for the board next year.

**A: good idea but the transfer fee benefits the HOA. Without it, there may be assessments.

[toxoman]

Originally Posted by HomeGuru

**A: good idea but the transfer fee benefits the HOA. Without it, there may be assessments.

There already are assessments.

I guess that this is a lost cause. I still don't see the "authority". To me, it is a special assessment under another name, just without the neccessity of the homeowners voting for a special assessment. Never would have guessed that this could have been done when I read the documents before closing -- and yes, I did read them very carefully. Thought the requirements for changing the assessments and special assessments were rigourous enough to protect against these sort of shenanigans.

I suppose that I could try to convince a judge but that could get expensive and may not worth it. Judging from the feedback, I would not have much luck in court anyway. Easier to pay the $500 at closing than to fight in court. Course, it could be $5,000 or $50,000 in the future as the amount is arbitrary and not limited at all.

As for running for the board. Been there done that (in another community). Was on the board for 7 years most of that time as treasurer. Never again!

Lesson learned -- never buy in a HOA again. I know, I know, easier said than done.

Wonder what the next "rule" will be?

[HomeGuru]

Originally Posted by toxoman

There already are assessments.

I guess that this is a lost cause. I still don't see the "authority". To me, it is a special assessment under another name, just without the neccessity of the homeowners voting for a special assessment. Never would have guessed that this could have been done when I read the documents before closing -- and yes, I did read them very carefully. Thought the requirements for changing the assessments and special assessments were rigourous enough to protect against these sort of shenanigans.

I suppose that I could try to convince a judge but that could get expensive and may not worth it. Judging from the feedback, I would not have much luck in court anyway. Easier to pay the $500 at closing than to fight in court. Course, it could be $5,000 or $50,000 in the future as the amount is arbitrary and not limited at all.

As for running for the board. Been there done that (in another community). Was on the board for 7 years most of that time as treasurer. Never again!

Lesson learned -- never buy in a HOA again. I know, I know, easier said than done.

Wonder what the next "rule" will be?

**A: the next rule may be sex only on Saturdays.