Natural Creek Determined HOA Common Ground

What is the name of your state? Missouri - - A couple of neighbors threatening to sue our HOA for the deterioration of natural creek in their back yard. The neighbors have gone through the process of seeing if the city, FEMA, and Corps of Engineers will do anything about it. End result, they will not saying due to the fact that it is considered "the association common grounds". Now they decide to sue the HOA to take care of the problem. They chose to live on the creek - not me! Is it really possible that the HOA will require extra funding through our association to stop the deterioration? As I said - it is a "natural creek". Thank you.

[HomeGuru]

Originally Posted by jandj

What is the name of your state? Missouri - - A couple of neighbors threatening to sue our HOA for the deterioration of natural creek in their back yard. The neighbors have gone through the process of seeing if the city, FEMA, and Corps of Engineers will do anything about it. End result, they will not saying due to the fact that it is considered "the association common grounds". Now they decide to sue the HOA to take care of the problem. They chose to live on the creek - not me! Is it really possible that the HOA will require extra funding through our association to stop the deterioration? As I said - it is a "natural creek". Thank you.

**A: what specifically is the basis for their lawsuit?

They are using the basis that somewhere along the line this natural creek is supposedly part of our neighborhood "common grounds", to which they think it is the home owners association who should now pay to do something to keep the creek from washing away their back yard.

Which, by the way, these neighbors have had an engineer out stating the cost of $14,000 to take care of the problem! If you ask me, that's the price one pays if they're not smart enough at the beginning to consider the end results of having a creek so close to their back yard before purchasing the house. I had a house once on 3 acres where my driveway crossed over the creek. The first thing I thought was better start saving for that rainy day. Glad I did, sure enough the driveway washed out. I didn't have a homeowners association, but even if I did, I certainly wouldn't expect others to pay my bill for my decision to buy! Not even the city!

[HomeGuru]

Originally Posted by jandj

Which, by the way, these neighbors have had an engineer out stating the cost of $14,000 to take care of the problem! If you ask me, that's the price one pays if they're not smart enough at the beginning to consider the end results of having a creek so close to their back yard before purchasing the house. I had a house once on 3 acres where my driveway crossed over the creek. The first thing I thought was better start saving for that rainy day. Glad I did, sure enough the driveway washed out. I didn't have a homeowners association, but even if I did, I certainly wouldn't expect others to pay my bill for my decision to buy! Not even the city!

**A: well it appears than that those neighbors should also name God as defendant.

AMEN! Thank you for your replies. I am vowing not to pay one cent for their problem if the board decides to have the neighborhood "anti-up". Then I'm with the understanding that the HOA could actually foreclose on my house if I don't pay my HOA dues. I DO pay my HOA dues, dues that are mandated that I knew about when I moved in this neighborhood! Nothing was ever mentioned maintaining the creek someone chose to live behind! I thought HOA's organized to keep boats, trailers, etc. out of driveways, trash off property, etc., etc., to keep the neighborhood looking nice. If HOA's have authority to raise "one time fees" to cover costs of this kind of matter - I'm ready to move back to my 3 acres and take care of my own problems! No more HOA's for me.

[HomeGuru]

Originally Posted by jandj

AMEN! Thank you for your replies. I am vowing not to pay one cent for their problem if the board decides to have the neighborhood "anti-up". Then I'm with the understanding that the HOA could actually foreclose on my house if I don't pay my HOA dues. I DO pay my HOA dues, dues that are mandated that I knew about when I moved in this neighborhood! Nothing was ever mentioned maintaining the creek someone chose to live behind! I thought HOA's organized to keep boats, trailers, etc. out of driveways, trash off property, etc., etc., to keep the neighborhood looking nice. If HOA's have authority to raise "one time fees" to cover costs of this kind of matter - I'm ready to move back to my 3 acres and take care of my own problems! No more HOA's for me.

**A: keep in mind that if the HOA loses the lawsuit (if one is actually filed), the HOA will likely assess the owners ( if funds are not available) and that you will be required to pay your pro-rata share.

[Ummonx]

If the HOA decides that its common ground and is going to fix the creek. You cannot refuse to pay for it since you agreed to abide by the HOA rules when you bought the house. HOA's can levy fees at thier discretion

That being said, suing an HOA is an extremely bad idea. For one, your own property values are hurt while the litigation is on, second, in many HOA's (and some state laws) , make the parties liable for all legal fees.

With many people in the neighborhood upset with how the HOA is ran, what are the steps needed to dissolve an HOA? Can a signed majority petition to dissolve be the first step? By dissolving, does this deplete the HOA's responsibility of the creek issue?

[Ummonx]

you would have to read your regulations. The requirements for desolving the HOA are probably there. if not.

You would be better off getting like minded neighbors together and running for the board

[rmet4nzkx]

Originally Posted by jandj

With many people in the neighborhood upset with how the HOA is ran, what are the steps needed to dissolve an HOA? Can a signed majority petition to dissolve be the first step? By dissolving, does this deplete the HOA's responsibility of the creek issue?

I might be wrong if the HOA was already liable for common areas and that appears to be the determintion here, than even if they desolved the HOA the members would still be responsible for for any litigation or judgements arising out of the time the HOA existed.

For example, a doctor is sued for malpractice this suit triggers other lawsuits and or others follow, there is a judgement or settlement, his insurance pays and cancels his insurance. The doctor then either gets another policy at much higher rates or not at all, or retires. As the other suits are adjudicated the orginal policy in effect at the time of the injury would still pay even though it was since canceled. However any lawsuits after the cancelled policy would be covered by the new policy if there is one current at the time of the injury.

A more important question right now might be, does your HOA have insurance or contigency funds set aside for repairs? Also if it costs $14k to repair one section how much of that is labor, there may be alternative way to improve the creek along all it's length. Here in California we have one day officially set aside for cleaning up the shoreline, this has now extended to inland waterways. It may be possible to partner with a college to to get both the engineering specs, plans and additional labor leaving only the cost of matrials by making it a community effort, that is one possible soluton.

I don't think desolving the HOA is going to solve the problem.

Thanks to all that replied to my inquiries. I plan on attending the HOA meeting next week and wanted some thoughts and ammunition before I spoke my peace. I have also thought about the labor cost factor involved, and with that the thought of a neighborhood gathering to do the work. That is if the HOA Board would approve of that. With further research, I find that apparently the parties with the erosion problem has had truck loads of dirt/rock dumping at the creek and the HOA has stopped their action. After finding this out, I would be quite irate myself and target the HOA because of their action to stop. Then again, we're dealing with a board that also stopped another owner planting grass seed on common ground. I think this gives us an idea what/who we're dealing with. And with the thoroughly explained reason why dissolving the HOA would be a moot point, perhaps it's just time to vote level headed people on the board instead. Thanks again to all.

[rmet4nzkx]

Originally Posted by jandj

Thanks to all that replied to my inquiries. I plan on attending the HOA meeting next week and wanted some thoughts and ammunition before I spoke my peace. I have also thought about the labor cost factor involved, and with that the thought of a neighborhood gathering to do the work. That is if the HOA Board would approve of that. With further research, I find that apparently the parties with the erosion problem has had truck loads of dirt/rock dumping at the creek and the HOA has stopped their action. After finding this out, I would be quite irate myself and target the HOA because of their action to stop. Then again, we're dealing with a board that also stopped another owner planting grass seed on common ground. I think this gives us an idea what/who we're dealing with. And with the thoroughly explained reason why dissolving the HOA would be a moot point, perhaps it's just time to vote level headed people on the board instead. Thanks again to all.

Well you have your answer, it is not a matter if the HOA is responsible for the maintenance of the creek, they have asserted their responsibility for it by their action, now what remains is how to fix the problem. BTW each standard dump truck is 6 cubic yards several truck loads represents a significant errosion problem, that must be properly repaired. Streams do change their course, however building homes impacts that as well, again putting more responsibility to the HOA. That's why they have environmental impact studies and Riparian laws.

Here is a link to riparian laws for Missouri
[url]http://www.dnr.state.mo.us/geology/wrp/wrpfaq.htm[/url]

[HomeGuru]

And I am sure we have not been told all the facts and the "whole" story.

[rmet4nzkx]

Originally Posted by HomeGuru

And I am sure we have not been told all the facts and the "whole" story.

No I don't think we have, even OP found out new information after their first post, pointing to the HOA responsibility.

When I went to the MO cite above cited, this is posted re this situation:
I need to develop an area or am seeing development ... ?

Some wetlands are regulated by the federal government. There are no state laws that are not tied back specifically to federal laws. If the wetland is in a farmed area, then the U.S. Department of Agriculture has jurisdiction. If the wetland is near a stream with a defined bed and banks, then the U.S. Army, Corps of Engineers, may have jurisdiction. The DNR Wetlands Hotline is (800) 334-6946, extension six. The Water Resources Program is located on the web at: /geology/wrp/wrphp.htm

So going to the USA Corp of Eng was a part of the process which is what brought it back to the HOA, as OP stated, the HOA objected to grass being planted in a common area. It seems like a community project might both fix the problem and reduce the cost. Fill being dumped is not going to do it without careful engineering and other amendments.