Rent Month to Month California

[DSchwarzba]

I have a property that is rented Month to Month the contract states the rent is due on the 1st of the month in advance. and a 30 days notice must be given in writing to terminate. My tenant gave me a 30 days notice (10/10/00) stating they are moving on November 10,00, and that they were only paying the rent to the 10th of the month, I wrote and told them that the rent is due for the entire month of November, regardless of what date in November they actually move.
Am I right that they owe for the entire Month?

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[Mhami]

I am not an attorney, but I am also a Landlord in CA. I don't believe you are correct in that they owe for the entire month of November. Why would they be obligated to pay rent if their Month to Month Agreement terminates 11/10/00? Were you planning on reimbursing the overpayment of rent based on the termination date? Or, were you planning on keeping the extra rent income?

Marianne

 

[HomeGuru]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DSchwarzba:
I have a property that is rented Month to Month the contract states the rent is due on the 1st of the month in advance. and a 30 days notice must be given in writing to terminate. My tenant gave me a 30 days notice (10/10/00) stating they are moving on November 10,00, and that they were only paying the rent to the 10th of the month, I wrote and told them that the rent is due for the entire month of November, regardless of what date in November they actually move.
Am I right that they owe for the entire Month?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The tenant is correct.

 

[DSchwarzba]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mhami:
I am not an attorney, but I am also a Landlord in CA. I don't believe you are correct in that they owe for the entire month of November. Why would they be obligated to pay rent if their Month to Month Agreement terminates 11/10/00? Were you planning on reimbursing the overpayment of rent based on the termination date? Or, were you planning on keeping the extra rent income?

Marianne<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

[DSchwarzba]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mhami:
I am not an attorney, but I am also a Landlord in CA. I don't believe you are correct in that they owe for the entire month of November. Why would they be obligated to pay rent if their Month to Month Agreement terminates 11/10/00? Were you planning on reimbursing the overpayment of rent based on the termination date? Or, were you planning on keeping the extra rent income?

Marianne<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dear Marianne:
Thank you for your reply however, there is no extra rent, the Month to Month agreement states the rent is due on the first of the month in advance. When a Tenant moves out in the middle of the month, the Owner of the property looses rental income for the balance of the month, we have no way of re-renting the unit until the existing tenant is out. Also our addendum to the Rental Agreement states that the tenant must notify us in writing 30 days prior to move-out but regardless of the date they move out their rent is due for the entire month. What I was looking for is an opinion from an attorney, regarding the Civil Code)s) Section 1940 and Subdivision(2) section 1151 &1162 of the code of Civil procedure, to make sure my interpertation is correct. However, thank you for your opinion,

 

[DSchwarzba]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HomeGuru:
The tenant is correct.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What about the Civil Code Section 1940-Subdivision(2) Sections 1151 &1162 of the Code of Civil Procedure. Is my interpertation of the codes wrong?
It is my understanding that on a Month to Month where it is clearly indicated that the rent is due IN advance, that it is for the entire month. Otherwise my owner looses half a month rent. If the Tenant Moves Out 11/10/00, then my owner looses the balance of the rent due for the month of November with no way to recover it.



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[HomeGuru]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DSchwarzba:
What about the Civil Code Section 1940-Subdivision(2) Sections 1151 &1162 of the Code of Civil Procedure. Is my interpertation of the codes wrong?
It is my understanding that on a Month to Month where it is clearly indicated that the rent is due IN advance, that it is for the entire month. Otherwise my owner looses half a month rent. If the Tenant Moves Out 11/10/00, then my owner looses the balance of the rent due for the month of November with no way to recover it.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Please post the civil Code here so we can all take a look at it.

Notwithstanding, your 30 days notice reasoning with respect to loss of income is illogical. Regardless of when the tenant moved out whether on the first of the month, middle of the month, or end of the month, as long as proper 30 days written notice was given to L, L had the 30 days to start marketing the property for rent by advertsing, showing the property to prospective tenants, doing L responsible repair work if needed etc. The re-renting procedures would be the same regardless of when the tenant moved out.

The law was not designed for an owner to be put in a position to always have rental income but created to be fair to both L and T. If you put in a special condition in the lease agreement as you stated that T is responsible for the entire months rent regardless of when and what date in the month T is vacating; then the condition is unenforceable as it is contrary to the law. T can not be held responsible and liable for the rent during the period after the tenancy was terminated. After the expiration of the 30 day period, T is no longer a legal tenant.

 

[Tracey]

Some states require T to gove notice 30 days before the next rent payment is due (Washington). Other states require T to give notice 30 days before moving out (California). If T is leaving before the end of the month in California, T can prorate the rent.

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This is not legal advice and you are not my client. Double check everything with your own attorney and your state's laws. [email protected] - please include some facts so I know who you are!

 

[DSchwarzba]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tracey:
Some states require T to gove notice 30 days before the next rent payment is due (Washington). Other states require T to give notice 30 days before moving out (California). If T is leaving before the end of the month in California, T can prorate the rent.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thank you, I intend to call our local attorney Monday Morning thank you for your answer



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[Mhami]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DSchwarzba:

Thank you, I intend to call our local attorney Monday Morning thank you for your answer<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Please let us know if your local attorney advises otherwise. If I am incorrect and could be getting more rent income then I would like to know.

Marianne

 

[HomeGuru]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mhami:
Please let us know if your local attorney advises otherwise. If I am incorrect and could be getting more rent income then I would like to know.

Marianne

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Marianne, you and the writer are both in California so the CA L/T laws apply whereby on a m/m lease, the tenant can give 30 days notice to vacate at any time of the month and be responsible for the rent only for and up to those 30 days. The date the rent payment is due has no bearing on the notice to vacate date.

 

[DSchwarzba]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HomeGuru:
Marianne, you and the writer are both in California so the CA L/T laws apply whereby on a m/m lease, the tenant can give 30 days notice to vacate at any time of the month and be responsible for the rent only for and up to those 30 days. The date the rent payment is due has no bearing on the notice to vacate date.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you, I will be checking with our local attorney here, for some reason many of us property manager think were right, but of course we could be all wet.


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[DSchwarzba]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HomeGuru:
Marianne, you and the writer are both in California so the CA L/T laws apply whereby on a m/m lease, the tenant can give 30 days notice to vacate at any time of the month and be responsible for the rent only for and up to those 30 days. The date the rent payment is due has no bearing on the notice to vacate date.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I will be more than happy to let you know what he says, many of the property managers here agree with me, but then we could all be crazy.


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[DSchwarzba]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mhami:
I am not an attorney, but I am also a Landlord in CA. I don't believe you are correct in that they owe for the entire month of November. Why would they be obligated to pay rent if their Month to Month Agreement terminates 11/10/00? Were you planning on reimbursing the overpayment of rent based on the termination date? Or, were you planning on keeping the extra rent income?

Marianne<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


10/31/00
I spoke with my attorney, his comment is that because my written rental agreement indicates that the rent is due on the first of the month in advance, and I also indicate that any notice must be given to us on the 1st of the month proceeding their vacating, and most imporantly is a written statement that their rent is due for the entire month regardless of the date they move out, I will probably prevail in small claims court. As he and I discussed, it is not a matter of collecting double rent, as we do advertise the property immediately when we receive notice that a tenant is vacating, and make all attempts to re-rent the property as soon as they vacated (provided we do not have to clean,paint and repair), and if and only if we are lucky enough to obtain a tenant to move in during the middle of the month, then we would of course refund the vacating tenants remaing days. Our contract is written in such a way as our landlords do not loose rental money. Most New tenants have to give their prior landlords 30 day written notice to vacate so it makes it hard to obtain a tenant to move in to a unit in the middle of the month. My attorney indicated that our written month to month addendums makes good business sence. He feels that should this go to small claims court I would probably pervail.


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[DSchwarzba]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HomeGuru:
The tenant is correct.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I spoke with my attorney, he indicated that although I use a pre-printed rental agreement, I have the right to change the terms and conditions, which we do in the form of a wrtten addendum to the month to month contract. In which it states that the tenant must provide the Landlord with a written 30 days notice, on the first of the month preceeding their vacating, further it states that the rent is due in advance for the entire month, and no rebate will be issued, regardless of the date they vacate.
However, in my discussion with my attorney, I explained that should a replacement tenant be found that can move in on the date the vacating tenant leaves, we would then rebate the remaining rent, as to avoid collecting double rent for the unit. The point I made was when a tenant moves out in the middle of the month, it is sometimes impossible to find a new tenant to move in,as most tenants need to provide a 30 day notice to the landlord. What we try to avoid is our owners loosing rental income because a tenant moves out in the middle of the month. We always advertise and show (if possible) the unit to prospective tenants, so that we when possible can put a new tenant in the unit as soon as it become available, there by often being in a position to refund money to a tenant, but when that is not possible, the tenant pays the full month. Why would this be any differnent than a Lease agreement? Is'nt the tenant responsible for the rent if they move out in the middle of the month, in addition to the balance of the lease agreement? I fail to understand why a month to month agreement can not be altered to make the same provision as a lease agreement where it applys to lose of income (for the month only of course).

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