Tenants using property for business

I have a property that the tenants have been leasing to run their business out of; although, they also live in the premises, I originally provided them with a commercial lease agreement and all of their rent checks are written from their business account in their business name. However, they never returned to me a signed copy of the lease agreement. In fact, they refused to sign the standard lease agreement I provided them with. They also never disclosed to me that they have 2 dogs. I never made an issue out of any of this because they always paid their rent on time and always maintained the property in excellent condition. They have been there for about 4 years. They did give me a $1500.00 deposit, $800 of which was to be applied towards their last month's rent. A year ago, they gave me written notice of their intent to vacate. However, they did not do so, and continued to stay and pay rent, even though, at that time, they used their $800 deposit towards that month's rent and never redeposited new funds with me. Now, they have given me verbal notice that they are vacating; however, they gave me notice in the middle of the month and not in writing. I have given them notice that I intend to show the property and when I then tried to give a 24-hour notice, they refused to allow me access and said I was being unreasonable becuase they were going out of town for several days and did not want it shown while they are away. They contacted their attorney and he now tells me that I do not have a right to hold any deposit money from them since I do not have a signed lease. He also threatened that if I do not go along with their terms, which is to show it only when they are present, to allow them to not be obligated to give the proper notice and only pay 10 days worth of rent for September, instead of the 30 days that they should be obligated to pay, and that I agree to immediately place all remaining deposit funds into an escrow account with him until they move, he threatened me with a lawsuit for double the deposit, along with the threat that they will contact every governmental agency who will be coming in to inspect for different conditions in the building and compliance.

My question first is....since they have been using the premises for their business and have always paid out of their business account, does the Washington State Landlord Tenant Act apply to us?

Second, since I did provide them with a commercial lease that they refused to sign, what are my rights in that regard?

Also, I am concerned that if they do not pay their September rent, I want to be able to use the remaining funds to cover their September obligation, but wonder if I have a right to the funds with no signed lease agreement.

Any information or advice you can give as to my rights and or action I should take would be most appreciated.

By the way, I forgot to say I am located in Washington State

[HomeGuru]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chrismc:
I have a property that the tenants have been leasing to run their business out of; although, they also live in the premises, I originally provided them with a commercial lease agreement and all of their rent checks are written from their business account in their business name. However, they never returned to me a signed copy of the lease agreement.
****HomeGuru response: then they are on a m/m lease.

In fact, they refused to sign the standard lease agreement I provided them with. They also never disclosed to me that they have 2 dogs. I never made an issue out of any of this because they always paid their rent on time and always maintained the property in excellent condition.
****HomeGuru response: the dogs are not an issue since you allowed them by accepting them.

They have been there for about 4 years. They did give me a $1500.00 deposit, $800 of which was to be applied towards their last month's rent. A year ago, they gave me written notice of their intent to vacate. However, they did not do so, and continued to stay and pay rent,
****HomeGuru response: their m/m tenancy continued and their notice to vacate void.

even though, at that time, they used their $800 deposit towards that month's rent and never redeposited new funds with me.
****HomeGuru response: they can not use their deposit as payment for the rent and you should have sent them notice to that effect.

Now, they have given me verbal notice that they are vacating; however, they gave me notice in the middle of the month and not in writing.
****HomeGuru response: notice to vacate must be in writing.

I have given them notice that I intend to show the property and when I then tried to give a 24-hour notice, they refused to allow me access and said I was being unreasonable becuase they were going out of town for several days and did not want it shown while they are away. They contacted their attorney and he now tells me that I do not have a right to hold any deposit money from them since I do not have a signed lease.
****HomeGuru response: tell this attorney to confirm this in writing.

He also threatened that if I do not go along with their terms, which is to show it only when they are present, to allow them to not be obligated to give the proper notice and only pay 10 days worth of rent for September, instead of the 30 days that they should be obligated to pay,
****HomeGuru response: same as above. He needs to read the L/T laws as he seems to be making it up.

and that I agree to immediately place all remaining deposit funds into an escrow account with him until they move,
****HomeGuru response: this is a joke. He wants to hold a measly $700. Even if you did place the funds in escrow it would not be with him.

he threatened me with a lawsuit for double the deposit,
****HomeGuru resonse: how can he sue for double the deposit when the tenants have not even vacated the property. You are not obligated to do anything with the deposit until after the tenant vacates.

along with the threat that they will contact every governmental agency who will be coming in to inspect for different conditions in the building and compliance.
****HomeGuru response: oh I like this one the best. Demand that he put this in writing. Threats, coercion, blackmail.....from an attorney too. Wow.

My question first is....since they have been using the premises for their business and have always paid out of their business account, does the Washington State Landlord Tenant Act apply to us?
****HomeGuru response: only if the property is a residential property and zoned for residential use. If the property is zoned for commercial use then the residential L/T laws may not apply. Ny responses above were based on the residential L/T laws.

Second, since I did provide them with a commercial lease that they refused to sign, what are my rights in that regard?
****HomeGuru response: Your rights are the same as for a m/m residential or commercial lease.

Also, I am concerned that if they do not pay their September rent, I want to be able to use the remaining funds to cover their September obligation, but wonder if I have a right to the funds with no signed lease agreement.
****HomeGuru response: you have more of a right to the funds than the tenants or their attorney.

Any information or advice you can give as to my rights and or action I should take would be most appreciated.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

HomeGuru response: send a certified letter back to the attorney documenting by quoting his statements of threats etc.

[This message has been edited by HomeGuru (edited August 19, 2000).]

Thank you for your response. However, I have a few other questions and am hoping you can clarify for me.

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;"I have given them notice that I intend to show the property and when I then tried to give a 24-hour notice, they refused to allow me access and said I was being unreasonable becuase they were going out of town for several days and did not want it shown while they are away. They contacted their attorney and he now tells me that I do not have a right to hold any deposit money from them since I do not have a signed lease."&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;
****HomeGuru response: tell this attorney to confirm this in writing

I do know under the Washington Landlord Tenant act that it is unlawful for me to hold deposit money without a written lease agreement. However,I was able to find a copy of the "Act" and it also states that if the tenants are using the property for their business, they are excluded from the "Landlord Tenant Act" Now I'd like to know if Washington has anything in writing that pertains to non-residential and/or commercial Landlord/Tenant laws that I can get a copy of.

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;he threatened me with a lawsuit for double the deposit,&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
****HomeGuru resonse: how can he sue for double the deposit when the tenants have not even vacated the property. You are not obligated to do anything with the deposit until after the tenant vacates.

Under the Landlord Tenant act, if a Landlord unlawfully holds deposit money, the tenants can sue for double the deposit. They have given me verbal notice and, I'm sure now that their attorney has advised them to provide me written notice, and thely have indicated their intention to sue for double the deposit money since I don't have a right to be holding it to start with...at least under the residential Landlord/Tenant act. That's why I'd like to know what the "non-residential" Act...if there is such a thing...says about this.
I have drafted a letter to them, which I plan to send certified mail, again enclosing a copy of the Commercial lease which I originally provided them and again asking them to immediately sign it and return it to me. Also informing them that even though they haven't signed it, they are still obligated under a month-to-month tenancy, but that they are in breach of our original agreement by not returning the signed lease to me.

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;My question first is....since they have been using the premises for their business and have always paid out of their business account, does the Washington State Landlord Tenant Act apply to us? &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
****HomeGuru response: only if the property is a residential property and zoned for residential use. If the property is zoned for commercial use then the residential L/T laws may not apply. Ny responses above were based on the residential L/T laws

The property is zoned M/L...for light manufacturing and the lease I originally provided them was in fact a commercial lease agreement.


If you can help me with these additional clarifications, I would greatly appreciate it and also if you could direct me to information regarding non-residential/commercial law information. Thank you!

[HomeGuru]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chrismc:
Thank you for your response. However, I have a few other questions and am hoping you can clarify for me.

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;"I have given them notice that I intend to show the property and when I then tried to give a 24-hour notice, they refused to allow me access and said I was being unreasonable becuase they were going out of town for several days and did not want it shown while they are away. They contacted their attorney and he now tells me that I do not have a right to hold any deposit money from them since I do not have a signed lease."&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;
****HomeGuru response: tell this attorney to confirm this in writing

I do know under the Washington Landlord Tenant act that it is unlawful for me to hold deposit money without a written lease agreement. However,I was able to find a copy of the "Act" and it also states that if the tenants are using the property for their business, they are excluded from the "Landlord Tenant Act" Now I'd like to know if Washington has anything in writing that pertains to non-residential and/or commercial Landlord/Tenant laws that I can get a copy of.

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;he threatened me with a lawsuit for double the deposit,&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
****HomeGuru resonse: how can he sue for double the deposit when the tenants have not even vacated the property. You are not obligated to do anything with the deposit until after the tenant vacates.

Under the Landlord Tenant act, if a Landlord unlawfully holds deposit money, the tenants can sue for double the deposit. They have given me verbal notice and, I'm sure now that their attorney has advised them to provide me written notice, and thely have indicated their intention to sue for double the deposit money since I don't have a right to be holding it to start with...at least under the residential Landlord/Tenant act. That's why I'd like to know what the "non-residential" Act...if there is such a thing...says about this.
I have drafted a letter to them, which I plan to send certified mail, again enclosing a copy of the Commercial lease which I originally provided them and again asking them to immediately sign it and return it to me. Also informing them that even though they haven't signed it, they are still obligated under a month-to-month tenancy, but that they are in breach of our original agreement by not returning the signed lease to me.

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;My question first is....since they have been using the premises for their business and have always paid out of their business account, does the Washington State Landlord Tenant Act apply to us? &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
****HomeGuru response: only if the property is a residential property and zoned for residential use. If the property is zoned for commercial use then the residential L/T laws may not apply. Ny responses above were based on the residential L/T laws

The property is zoned M/L...for light manufacturing and the lease I originally provided them was in fact a commercial lease agreement.


If you can help me with these additional clarifications, I would greatly appreciate it and also if you could direct me to information regarding non-residential/commercial law information. Thank you!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is geting more complicated so I need to advise you to hire a local real estate attorney to help you. The important issue is to determine what laws are applicable as there is a question of whether the property is considered a residential unit or a commercial unit. Once this is firmly established, then the correct laws can be addressed with respect to the security deposit, property access, no written lease agreement etc. It would seem to be that due to the use and zoning, that Title 59 RCW Landlord and Tenant Chapter 59.18 Residential Landlord Tenant Act, 59.18.260 no deposit can be collected unless the lease is in writing and 59.18.150 Landlords right of entry may not be applicable. You have to look outside of Chapter 59 including 60.42.005 commercial real estate to find out the law with respect to commercial leases.
I apologize for not being able to advise you further.