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  1. #1
    janetta1961 is offline Junior Member
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    Talking !!!To beat a Parking ticket when no Signs are posted!!!

    What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? I live in louisiana.

    !!!To beat a Parking ticket when no Signs are posted!!!

    Ok listen up folks. I recently got 2 parking tickets while visiting my son in Illinois. I parked in a parking lot, because it was the ONLY place in town that did not have a "Limited time parking" or "No Parking" sign posted. Before leaving my son, I took photo's of the parking area in which my truck was parked.

    Yes, there is a Law under the (MUTCD) Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices (here is the link to the site [url=http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/]Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices (MUTCD) - FHWA[/url] ) according to this Manual, which is MANDATED TO BE INCORAPERATED INTO EVER STATES "Vehicle Code", ie Illinois Vehicle Code. You can find all of this info online!!!

    I also noticed that in the "Illinois Vehicle Code" that any person who is not a resident of that City, County, or State does not need to be pressent to "Dispute" parking tickets!!! Look for that also should you be a out of town traveler.

    Many of us are not aware of this Federaly Mandated Code for Signs and such. Basicly it comes down to this:

    If there are no signs posted or any curb markings, the "No Parking" law in each city, town, state, etc can not be up held and enofrced by ANY Police officer. However, You will need to educate yourself on your states code, get some pictures of the area in which you where ticketed at, and write a letter to BOTH City Council and the Sherriff of that County. State the Codes from both the MUTCD and State Vehicle Codes as well as interate that " in order to be guilty of violation of parking in a "No Parking " zone a Sign has to be posted to warn and guide drivers, only then can this Law be enforced.

    Send these letters along with the photos, CERTIFIED with return addressing to you that it was recieved, to both the county Sheriff and City Council (the Mayor and City is responseable to post the signs and the Sherrif's Office is responsible to uphold the law). In the letter (if prior to court hearing) request that the Sherif or Mayor can contact you to resolve this matter (I put in my letter "I could only assume that the officer who issued the ticket was not aware of the "MUTCD" code) via email (give your email address) or by disposing in the US Postal service within 7 days of reciept of your letter.

    Will it work?

    I can only tell you that I did such and I receive an email in which they "DISSMISSED" both parking tickets!

    Educate yourself, do not let anyone BULLY YOU!! Empower yourself with Knowledge!

    I think that those who make negitive comments to us on this forum are Police officers who know what the law is according to the "MUTCD" and they dont want you to have this info!!!

    If you do all of this, it should take care of your ticket(s). Remember if you do all of this and you are from out of City, County, Town you might want to consider contacting a Attorney and filing a suite against the Police Officer for Perjury, as well as the City and County for such negilince. (sorry about the spelling)

    I think you get my point here :-)

    Good Luck~
    Last edited by janetta1961; 04-27-2009 at 01:38 PM.
  2. #2
    You Are Guilty is offline Senior Member
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    1) I don't think I have ever seen more wrong information in one post.

    2) Didn't you already post this drivel before? I recall some similar crap and a number of people wasted their time trying to point out the numerous errors, obviously to no avail.

    3) Not that it matters, but only like 1-2 people here are police officers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquility
    Once you get to crazy land, it is only a guess on how to get out.
  3. #3
    janetta1961 is offline Junior Member
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    I beat it!

    I actually talked to the Sheriff on the phone this morning and he was nice as could be. You see, if you take the time to write the letter, it will be handled.

    After I got off the phone I recieved an email from him
    "Janetta,

    Pursuant to our conversation this morning, your parking tickets will be
    nulle processed, therefore you do not need to appear for the court date.
    If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to call.

    Thank you,
    Last edited by janetta1961; 04-27-2009 at 12:41 PM.
  4. #4
    Stevef is offline Senior Member
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    This sounds an awful lot like the "The United States Government is not authorized to tax income" argument.
  5. #5
    Isis1 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetta1961 View Post
    I actually talked to the Sheriff on the phone this morning and he was nice as could be. You see, if you take the time to write the letter, it will be handled.

    After I got off the phone I recieved an email from him
    "Janetta,

    Pursuant to our conversation this morning, your parking tickets will be
    nulle processed, therefore you do not need to appear for the court date.
    If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to call.

    Thank you,
    just a correction....it CAN be handled. you talked a police officer out of doing something. doesn't make it legally correct. not all matters can be handled this way.
  6. #6
    janetta1961 is offline Junior Member
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    Lightbulb I bet it

    Actually, no I did not "Talk" anyone of of anything. I simply stated the LAW to the Cheif of Police as well as the Municipility, which by the way, is held accountable, even for such neglect as simply making a law in their city, trying to enforce it, without posting proper Warnings to such law. Now, the Chief could have backed up his officer, however in doing so, he would have been liable for damages as much as the ticketing officer.

    I think there is a lot of miss conceptions about Citizens not having rights. Or expressing their rights. It's as if "How dare we?"

    Let put it in a nut shell here for you.

    If they would have went ahead with the citation without withdrawing it, the ticketing officer ( remember IGNORANCE is not an excuse, even when it comes to Police officers not being aware of the State and Federal Law) would have been perjuring himself as he signed the ticket stating that I violated such law. Look on the tickets, you will see where the officer signs it, "AFFIRMATION" provided on the ticket is true and correct.

    Now, since I sent a certified letter to Both Chief of Police as well as The Mayor, regarding my knowledge of the Federal and State Vehicle codes, and how the officer must not been aware of such law (better to assume ignorance than other things, such as Harassment, Discrimanation, and such, which are grounds for a Law suite against the City, County, and ticketing Officer) they now becoming a "LIABLE" party in the matter who can be held accountable in Court. How embarrassing that might be for a Police office, Chief of Police, and Mayor, especially if it hit the news, eh?

    Replying to those who ask, "Who would file such a law suite?" A pissed off Citizen who is not Claiming Ignorance, but upholding the Law and excersising his/her rights as a citizen of the USA, by bringing such matters to the attention of those who have taken an Oath to Uphold the Law!

    So no, I did not talk anyone out of a ticket!!! Maybe the Chief used his Common sense!
  7. #7
    janetta1961 is offline Junior Member
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    Talking Here is an copy of what I wrote:



    Police Dept.
    Chief of Police -


    Cc. City Council – Mayor P.O. Box 310


    Dear Officer (Chief of Police),

    My name is XXXXXXXXXXX, and I am a Non-Resident of Illinois, whom recently visited your City, XXXXXX, Illinois on XXXX, 2009. Being a Non-Resident of Illinois, as well as a Non-Resident of XXXXX, Illinois, I was unaware of your City’s Ordnances, as I am sure all Visitors to you State, and City are.
    Upon my visitation to your City, I received 2 citations # PXXXXXXX & PXXXXXXXX by officer badge #XXXX, in violation of your City Ordnances 15.04B B:

    "15.04B B. Parking Lot Parking Permits:
    Chapter 15, Page 4
    August 14, 2007
    1. Parking lot parking permits shall be issued by the Police Department. The length
    of time and permit fee shall be determined from time to time by the City Council.
    2. Parking lot permits shall be prominently displayed on the vehicle.
    3. Parking lot permits shall be valid for 24 hours a day.
    4. Parking lot permits shall only be valid in the following locations:
    (Amended Ord. 2007-127,1)
    a. City Parking Lots 1 (West Brainard Street), 2 (East Front Street) and 3
    (West Sumner Street).
    b. Johnson Street, on the east side, from North Division Street to West
    Brainard Street.
    c. North Division Street, on the west side, from its intersection with North
    Ayer Street southward to a point allowing for four parking stalls. Said
    stalls shall be permitted only for current residents of the specific block in
    which the stalls exist.."

    I parked in a parking lot that had no signs erected as Regulated and set as Standards by the Illinois Vehicle Code (625 ILCS 5/11 209) (from Ch. 95 1/2, par. 11 209)Sec. 11 209, and the 2003 edition of the Illinois Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices (IMUTCD) that consists of the December 2003 of the national Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices (MUTCD), which was adopted as the official manual for a uniformed system of traffic control for the state of Illinois in November 2004, including subsequent official revisions thereto, as amended by this Illinois Supplement to the MUTCD, and the Federal Highway Administrations – MUTCD for Streets and highways ([url=http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/]Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices (MUTCD) - FHWA[/url]) which was adopted as the Official Manual for a Uniformed system of Traffic Control Device for the state of Illinois.

    Simply put, there are No signs erected in the lot in which my vehicle was parked, nor on the curbs, or upon entering the lot which regulate, warn or guide one not to park in this area. This can be clearly seen in the photo’s I have enclosed.

    However, there are ample amount of ( No Parking/Parking allowed during specific times) signs erected on the streets adjoining this lot that do comply with the IMUTCD and the MUTCD for Streets and Highways within your City that regulate, warn or guide one not to park in these specific areas, therefore informing anyone (resident or Non-Resident) that parking in these space would be a violation of any of your City’s Ordinances, which does show and is evident that your city has adopted the Regulatory and Standards of the IMUTCD and MUTCH code for erecting and enforcing these laws.
    Inserts from:
    MANUAL ON UNIFORM TRAFFIC CONTROL DEVICES
    INTRODUCTION (2003 Edition - Revision 2)
    Page I-1 “Traffic control devices shall be defined as all signs, signals, markings, and other devices used to
    regulate, warn, or guide traffic, placed on, over, or adjacent to a street, highway, pedestrian facility, or bikeway by authority of a public agency having jurisdiction. The Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices (MUTCD) is incorporated by reference in 23 Code of Federal Regulations (CFR), Part 655, Subpart F and shall be recognized as the national standard for all traffic control devices installed on any street, highway, or bicycle trail open to public travel in accordance with 23 U.S.C. 109(d) and 402(a). The policies and procedures of the Federal Highway Administration (FHWA) to obtain basic uniformity of traffic control devices shall be as described in 23 CFR 655, Subpart F.”
    And
    “Standard:
    The U.S. Secretary of Transportation, under authority granted by the Highway Safety Act of 1966,
    decreed that traffic control devices on all streets and highways open to public travel in accordance with 23 U.S.C. 109(d) and 402(a) in each State shall be in substantial conformance with the Standards issued or endorsed by the FHWA.
    Support:
    23 CFR 655.603 adopts the MUTCD as the national standard for any street, highway, or bicycle trail open to public travel in accordance with 23 U.S.C. 109(d) and 402(a). The “Uniform Vehicle Code (UVC)” is one of the publications referenced in the MUTCD. The UVC contains a model set of motor vehicle codes and traffic laws for use throughout the United States.”

    Page 1A-1
    Section 1A.01 Purpose of Traffic Control Devices
    Support:
    The purpose of traffic control devices, as well as the principles for their use, is to promote highway safety
    and efficiency by providing for the orderly movement of all road users on streets and highways throughout the Nation. Traffic control devices notify road users of regulations and provide warning and guidance needed for the reasonably safe, uniform, and efficient operation of all elements of the traffic stream.

    Page 1A-2
    Section 1A.04 Placement and Operation of Traffic Control Devices
    Guidance:
    Placement of a traffic control device should be within the road user’s view so that adequate visibility is
    provided. To aid in conveying the proper meaning, the traffic control device should be appropriately positioned with respect to the location, object, or situation to which it applies. The location and legibility of the traffic control device should be such that a road user has adequate time to make the proper response in both day and night conditions.Traffic control devices should be placed and operated in a uniform and consistent manner. Unnecessary traffic control devices should be removed. The fact that a device is in good physical condition should not be a basis for deferring needed removal or change.

    Page 1A-2
    Section 1A.07 Responsibility for Traffic Control Devices
    Standard:
    The responsibility for the design, placement, operation, maintenance, and uniformity of traffic control devices shall rest with the public agency or the official having jurisdiction. 23 CFR 655.603 adopts the Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices as the national standard for all traffic control devices installed on any street, highway, or bicycle trail open to public travel. When a State or other Federal agency manual or supplement is required, that manual or supplement shall be in substantial conformance with the national Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices. 23 CFR 655.603 also states that traffic control devices on all streets and highways open to public travel in each State shall be in substantial conformance with standards issued or endorsed by the Federal Highway Administrator.

    Page 2A-2
    Section 2A.05 Classification of Signs
    Standard:
    Signs shall be defined by their function as follows:
    A. Regulatory signs give notice of traffic laws or regulations.
    B. Warning signs give notice of a situation that might not be readily apparent.
    C. Guide signs show route designations, destinations, directions, distances, services, points of interest,
    and other geographical, recreational, or cultural information.

    Page 2B-1
    Application of Regulatory Signs
    Standard:
    Regulatory signs shall be used to inform road users of selected traffic laws or
    regulations and indicate the applicability of the legal requirements.
    Regulatory signs shall be installed at or near where the regulations apply. The
    signs shall clearly indicate the requirements imposed by the regulations and shall
    be designed and installed to provide adequate visibility and legibility in order to
    obtain compliance. Regulatory signs shall be retroreflective or illuminated to show the same shape and similar color by both day and night, unless specifically stated otherwise in the text discussion of a particular sign or group of signs (see Section 2A.08). The requirements for sign illumination shall not be considered to be satisfied bystreet, highway, or strobe lighting

    I can only assume that your officer Badge #XXX was unaware of these Regulations and Standards that have been set by the Illinois Vehicle Codes, IMUTCD and the MUTCD. Therefore based on the Regulations and Standards adopted in the Illinois Vehicle Codes, it is evident that I am not guilty of violating your City Ordnances 15.04B B, to be guilty of such, even though your city has such ordnances, according to the Regulations and Standards of the Illinois Vehicle Codes, IMUTCD and MUTCD, “No Parking” (section 2B.39 MUTCD 2003 edition, Page 2B-4) signs must be posted to regulate, warn or guide of such Ordinances to be enforceable by the law.

    Therefore, Chief XXXXX,I humbly request and greatly appreciate this matter be resolved by withdrawing these citations # PXXXXXX & PXXXXXXX for violation of your City ordinance 15.04B.

    Please advise in writing by depositing in the US Postal service, or email me at XXXXXXX, your response to this letter 10 business days before the schedule “Notice of Appearance” on XXX,2009 regarding this issue. Please note The Illinois Vehicle code (625 ILCS 5/11-208.3)(from Ch. 95 1/2, par. 11-208.3) Sec. 11-208.3.B(9) “Procedures for non-residents. Procedures by which persons who are not residents of the municipality may contest the merits of the alleged violation without attending a hearing.”


    Sincerely,
  8. #8
    You Are Guilty is offline Senior Member
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    Yeah, nice letter.

    Nothing to do with MUTCD requiring local governments to post signs, though, and the conclusions you draw from the fact that some hick town decided to dismiss your tickets are simply incomprehensible.

    {edit}

    Ah, I knew I wasn't crazy:
    http://forum.freeadvice.com/parking-tickets-non-moving-violations-44/here-everyones-answer-parking-tickets-463743.html
    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquility
    Once you get to crazy land, it is only a guess on how to get out.
  9. #9
    patstew is offline Member
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    Cool

    If only there were a kill filter on this forum.
  10. #10
    janetta1961 is offline Junior Member
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    Talking Your Comments

    Your comments in the negitive fashion is just to discourage others not to do as I did.

    You obviously did not read the Manual not any State Laws regarding Motor Vehicle. Just because I did not site the WHOLE Manual or Law does not mean it does not exisist, I was just ASSUMING that the Chief was not IGNORANANT of the State and Federal Laws.

    Tisk Tisk You must be bored out of your mind, so much so...Perhaps...You are Crazy!

  11. #11
    Zigner is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetta1961 View Post
    Your comments in the negitive fashion is just to discourage others not to do as I did.

    You obviously did not read the Manual not any State Laws regarding Motor Vehicle. Just because I did not site the WHOLE Manual or Law does not mean it does not exisist, I was just ASSUMING that the Chief was not IGNORANANT of the State and Federal Laws.

    Tisk Tisk You must be bored out of your mind, so much so...Perhaps...You are Crazy!

    Congrats on your dismissal. Now, move along. Your luck of the draw does not mean that you have found some holy grail...
  12. #12
    You Are Guilty is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetta1961 View Post
    Your comments in the negitive fashion is just to discourage others not to do as I did.
    Well, no, my comments in "the negitive fashion" is due to the law school degree on my wall, with a bit of common sense thrown in for good luck. If you could see past the end of your nose, you'd find that I have helped a number of people successfully challenge their parking tickets over the years.

    On the other hand, the only thing your letter is good for is the $0.42 that the post office received for delivering it. So, thanks for supporting the economy!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquility
    Once you get to crazy land, it is only a guess on how to get out.

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