CA - Towed from "guest parking" spot while visiting apt complex

[nickelpin]

What is the name of your state? California

[URL="http://blink.rydia.net/lj/IMG_0103%20copy.jpg"]Image of parking sign[/URL]

"Park Villa Apartments
Guest Parking
Office hours
8am - 6pm"

I visited a friend at an apartment complex, and parked in this parking spot outside of the gated apartment complex with this sign in front of it. There were no other signs posted. (I searched around to be safe). So I parked there at 10:30 am but within 2 hours, my car was towed (at 11:50am). I didn't find out until after it had been towed - I thought my car had been stolen. I called the PD who then informed me it was at xxx Towing Company.

The reason given when I arrived at the tow company office was that I had illegally parked in an office-only parking spot. I paid the ticket but I feel like this was all wrong somehow. Isn't there supposed to be a sign put up with some kind of penal code informing you you'll be towed? Or even, shouldn't it even say "Office parking only" with the words in that order somewhere on the sign in order for it to be legal to tow?

My 3-hour-long trial and hassle with the tow company is another story... in which I drove to the next city to pay for my car, then they required me to sign a release of responsibility document saying I'd take the car in its current condition, although I hadn't even been able to see my car, before telling me that my car was not at the location I was at, and that I'd have to go somewhere else to pick it up... ended up I drove to that place I was directed and found out that my car was not there, ended up having to drive to another location in another city to find the building locked and deserted... had to call up the office and request a driver to come over to get me my car... waited for him to arrive, then when he arrived to process my already-paid fee and papers, only to hear that I'd been overcharged by the office by $20 or something... before I got my car back.

[seniorjudge]

Originally Posted by nickelpin

What is the name of your state? California

[URL="http://blink.rydia.net/lj/IMG_0103%20copy.jpg"]Image of parking sign[/URL]

"Park Villa Apartments
Guest Parking
Office hours
8am - 6pm"

I visited a friend at an apartment complex, and parked in this parking spot outside of the gated apartment complex with this sign in front of it. There were no other signs posted. (I searched around to be safe). So I parked there at 10:30 am but within 2 hours, my car was towed (at 11:50am). I didn't find out until after it had been towed - I thought my car had been stolen.

The reason given when I arrived at the tow company office was that I had illegally parked in an office-only parking spot. I paid the ticket but I feel like this was all wrong somehow. Isn't there supposed to be a sign put up with some kind of penal code informing you you'll be towed? Or even, shouldn't it even say "Office parking only" with the words in that order somewhere on the sign in order for it to be legal to tow?

The sign is very clearly one showing that it is for the guests using the office.

[nickelpin]

Does it legally read that way? It says office on the sign somewhere, but not in front of 'parking'.

[nickelpin]

Also, is there some kind of time limit as to how long a car can be parked before it is towed when it is marked for a specific purpose? What if it just takes me that long to walk over to the office?

[fairisfair]

Originally Posted by nickelpin

Also, is there some kind of time limit as to how long a car can be parked before it is towed when it is marked for a specific purpose? What if it just takes me that long to walk over to the office?

2 hours?? dang dude, you better pick up those feet.

[xylene]

Originally Posted by seniorjudge

The sign is very clearly one showing that it is for the guests using the office.

Clear as bowl of oatmeal.

Nickelpin- why don't you compose a letter to the apartment complex and demand, (in friendly language) that they:

1) Repay your tow charges.

2) Install clear signage (unless their is other signage that you are ommitting)


---

GUESS parking.

[nickelpin]

Originally Posted by seniorjudge

The sign is very clearly one showing that it is for the guests using the office.

I guess that's the part that confuses me really... because it isn't printed that way specifically, so... Regardless, is the existence of both "office" and "parking" words on the sign really enough to argue in the courts against me?

[nickelpin]

Originally Posted by xylene

Clear as bowl of oatmeal.

Nickelpin- why don't you compose a letter to the apartment complex and demand, (in friendly language) that they:

1) Repay your tow charges.

2) Install clear signage (unless their is other signage that you are ommitting)


---

GUESS parking.

What should I do if they refuse to do so?
I called them up and told them what happenned, and they said it was their right to have me towed whenever as I was parking on 'private property'

[CdwJava]

Read CVC 22658 here:

[url]http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=veh&group=22001-23000&file=22650-22711[/url]

Then check to see that the property is posted properly (usually at the entrances). After that, contact the apartment management and see that they actually had someone sign for the vehicle. In CA it is a VERY common practice to just tow cars without proper authority and compel the hapless vehicle owners to pay the towing and storage fees. Some agencies even have officers assigned to go after "pirate tow" operations, so the police might be another resource (particularly if this is in the LAPD jurisdiction).

You say you paid a "ticket"? Unless you paid it to the court, or paid a parking violation to city hall or their designee, you did not pay a ticket - you paid a fee ... or some other self-imposed assessment.

Further, if they towed your car and failed to notify law enforcement someone could be guilty of additional offenses.

How did you find out that your car had been towed? Who did you pay money to? And was the property properly signed?

These answers will determine the next course of action.

- Carl

[nickelpin]

Originally Posted by CdwJava

Read CVC 22658 here:

[url]http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=veh&group=22001-23000&file=22650-22711[/url]

Then check to see that the property is posted properly (usually at the entrances). After that, contact the apartment management and see that they actually had someone sign for the vehicle. In CA it is a VERY common practice to just tow cars without proper authority and compel the hapless vehicle owners to pay the towing and storage fees. Some agencies even have officers assigned to go after "pirate tow" operations, so the police might be another resource (particularly if this is in the LAPD jurisdiction).

I went checking for signs, but this parking spot was located just off of the main street, so it's not clear where the 'entrance' really is. I'll go back and take more photos to be sure though.

Originally Posted by CdwJava

You say you paid a "ticket"? Unless you paid it to the court, or paid a parking violation to city hall or their designee, you did not pay a ticket - you paid a fee ... or some other self-imposed assessment.

Oops. It wasn't a "ticket" but the tow fee.

Originally Posted by CdwJava

Further, if they towed your car and failed to notify law enforcement someone could be guilty of additional offenses.
How did you find out that your car had been towed? Who did you pay money to? And was the property properly signed?

I called the PD and found out from them that it had been towed. The money was paid to the tow company. I don't know if it was properly signed - how do I find that out?

[CdwJava]

Originally Posted by nickelpin

I called the PD and found out from them that it had been towed. The money was paid to the tow company. I don't know if it was properly signed - how do I find that out?

On the page I linked, check down to section 22658 ...

There is displayed, in plain view at all entrances to the
property, a sign not less than 17 by 22 inches in size, with
lettering not less than one inch in height, prohibiting public
parking and indicating that vehicles will be removed at the owner's
expense, and containing the telephone number of the local traffic law
enforcement agency. The sign may also indicate that a citation may
also be issued for the violation.

So, 17"x22" or larger with the information listed above.

Also find out WHO from the complex's management was present when the vehicle was towed (as required by the section) and authorized the tow. If no one was present then the tow was likely unlawful and the management and/or the tow company can be liable for penalties pursuant to that section.

- Carl

[AHA]

I used to live in a similar apartment complex and the understanding was that, if the office hours are posted on the sign, it is implied that the parking is for office guests only. Guests of apartment residents could park in other parking areas spread around the complex.

Found all of that out when I successfully got my animal abuser neighbour evicted, but this is in CO.

[nickelpin]

Originally Posted by AHA

I used to live in a similar apartment complex and the understanding was that, if the office hours are posted on the sign, it is implied that the parking is for office guests only. Guests of apartment residents could park in other parking areas spread around the complex.

Seems that's the policy at this place too. It's too bad I didn't find out about this until AFTER all this happenned. I mean if they had just put a Don't Park Here sign there I would definitely not have parked there.

A week after this happenned, I went back there last night to take these photos. Nothing has changed. (caution : photos are around 1MB each)
[URL="http://blink.rydia.net/lj/tow/1.JPG"]photo 1[/URL]
[URL="http://blink.rydia.net/lj/tow/2.JPG"]photo 2[/URL]
[URL="http://blink.rydia.net/lj/tow/3.JPG"]photo 3[/URL]
[URL="http://blink.rydia.net/lj/tow/4.JPG"]photo 4[/URL]
[URL="http://blink.rydia.net/lj/tow/5.JPG"]photo 5[/URL]
[URL="http://blink.rydia.net/lj/tow/6.JPG"]photo 6 - spot I was towed from[/URL]
[URL="http://blink.rydia.net/lj/tow/7.JPG"]photo 7[/URL]
[URL="http://blink.rydia.net/lj/tow/8.JPG"]photo 8[/URL]
[URL="http://blink.rydia.net/lj/tow/9.JPG"]photo 9[/URL]
[URL="http://blink.rydia.net/lj/tow/10.JPG"]photo 10[/URL]

Originally Posted by CdwJava

On the page I linked, check down to section 22658 ...

There is displayed, in plain view at all entrances to the
property, a sign not less than 17 by 22 inches in size, with
lettering not less than one inch in height, prohibiting public
parking and indicating that vehicles will be removed at the owner's
expense, and containing the telephone number of the local traffic law
enforcement agency. The sign may also indicate that a citation may
also be issued for the violation.

So, 17"x22" or larger with the information listed above.

There is a sign kind of pertaining to this (img 7, 8, 9) but I think it's only for the inside gated parking. Could that be argued against me? Not sure how this could be simultaneously resident parking and guest parking at the same time though.

Originally Posted by CdwJava

Also find out WHO from the complex's management was present when the vehicle was towed (as required by the section) and authorized the tow. If no one was present then the tow was likely unlawful and the management and/or the tow company can be liable for penalties pursuant to that section.
- Carl

I'll have to call the apt manager office again... they totally shut me down last time I called when I complained.

[xylene]

Originally Posted by nickelpin

I'll have to call the apt manager office again... they totally shut me down last time I called when I complained.

Stop calling. You are wasting your time.

They will not take you seriously until you WRITE them, pref. by CRR.

[CdwJava]

Originally Posted by nickelpin

There is a sign kind of pertaining to this (img 7, 8, 9) but I think it's only for the inside gated parking. Could that be argued against me? Not sure how this could be simultaneously resident parking and guest parking at the same time though.

These signs are outside the requirements of CVC 22658 as they do not contain the phone number for the police or other traffic enforcement agency.

I'll have to call the apt manager office again... they totally shut me down last time I called when I complained.

I would consider bringing a copy of the section (22658) with me to the office and ask them to show you the required signs and documents. If they cannot, then I would suggest that they make good for your AT LEAST your tow costs or you will go after them for the treble awards and more as provided for in the section.

- Carl