Can this tow be enforced?

[loloman]

What is the name of your state? California
I parked in an apartment complex that has general signs posted at the entrances by a towing company that states "permit required" however, that is not the parking policyof the complex between 5 a.m. and 11 p.m. . But, nowhere in the "free" (by that I mean uncovered and unassigned ) parking spaces is there any sign saying that after 11 p.m. your car will be in violation and subject to towing. Also even if it did, after I believe 5 p.m. there is no way to obtain a permit. The office is closed. My case is this; I arrived at 11 p.m. to feed some cats and left at midnight to find my car had been towed. My question is, is this enforceable being I had no way of knowing 11 pm was the cut off time and even if I did I could do nothing about it anyway and all of the streets surrounding the complex are posted no parking areas. I am considering small claims court over this matter, however if the signs posted at the front are sufficient notice regardless of when they choose to enforce the permit hours and/or if they can enforce it without offering a way to obatain a permit after office hours than I have no case and don't want to pursue it. Any help is GREATLY appreciated.

[justalayman]

Like Bill Engvall says, "here's your sign"

From what I read, there are no other signs other than the "permit required" sign. If there is no other signage to alter or exempt certain cars, then the one sign is your notice. If the owner chooses to be lax or selective in enforcement is not an excuse or reason for fighting this.

Re: the apartments 5-11 thing; are you a tenant? How are you aware of the policy of the apartment complex?

Simple logic would bring one to the conclusion that even if parking is allowed without permit until 11, after 11 would require a permit. Whether a permit is available to you is irrelevant.

[loloman]

justalayman,
thanks for your reply, sorry it took me a while to get back and read it, but this is the situation, for your info and in answer to your question. No I am not a resident, I was hired to pet sit some cats and I was not aware of the after 11 pm permit requirements until after the fact. I went to the office to discuss the matter the following day and the manager herself told me I was free to park there up until 11 pm without a permit and after 5am. The only other signs are directly on the covered parking areas that specifically say resident parking only. Again my question is is if a person arrives AFTER 5 or 6 pm (whenever the office closes) and this is the single source to obtain a permit, and a permit is required, how can they be legally held to the permit rule if the person is not able to obtain one because the complex that requires them is not present to give any out? How can that be legally enforceable? Simply because a sign says permits are required, BUT none are made available, how can one comply? Thanks for any further in put you might have.

[justalayman]

Originally Posted by loloman

justalayman,
thanks for your reply, sorry it took me a while to get back and read it, but this is the situation, for your info and in answer to your question. No I am not a resident, I was hired to pet sit some cats and I was not aware of the after 11 pm permit requirements until after the fact. I went to the office to discuss the matter the following day and the manager herself told me I was free to park there up until 11 pm without a permit and after 5am. The only other signs are directly on the covered parking areas that specifically say resident parking only. Again my question is is if a person arrives AFTER 5 or 6 pm (whenever the office closes) and this is the single source to obtain a permit, and a permit is required, how can they be legally held to the permit rule if the person is not able to obtain one because the complex that requires them is not present to give any out? How can that be legally enforceable? Simply because a sign says permits are required, BUT none are made available, how can one comply? Thanks for any further in put you might have.

We are back to the "management is not required to enforce the rules if they do not wish" which is apparent for between 5 am and 11 pm. Their choice.
Permits are available, just not at your desired time. They have no duty to wait there 24/7 in case somebody needs a permit. Seeing it is their property, they can make just about any rules they want as to requirements to park there. and if you do not abide by them, they can, and apparently will, tow your vehicle.



This situation is obviously intended for people that acquire permits prior to parking there.
Why did you not solicit a permit from the manager when you were speaking with her?
or ask the tenant/cat owner about this and have her obtain one for you?

[CdwJava]

Private party tows are handled under CVC 22658.

Essentially the property must be signed properly at the entrances (which it seems to have been), and the owner or their agent (the manager or other designated representative) must be present at the tow and provide written permission to the tow company.

There are many tow companies playing fast and loose with private property impounds without reading the most relevant sections - including the one on damages that both the property owner and the tow company might be liable for with an unlawful tow.

Check out CVC 22658 at the following link (most notably 22658(a)(1), 22658(f), and 22658(l)(1)) :

[url]http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=veh&group=22001-23000&file=22650-22711[/url]

Pirate tows have been a BIG problem in Los Angeles. If this occurred in Los Angeles, they have a specail unit at the police department that handles these. If not in L.A., you might consider contacting your local police department and reporting it ... provided the required elements of signage and the presence of a property rep. have NOT been met.

- Carl

[loloman]

Just wanted to say thank you to you all for replying. And just to answer your questrions justalayman, I did not speak to the manager until AFTER the tow and did not know that it was enforced for the open spaces as the only other signs are on all of the covered parking clearly stating permits were needed to park there (which in and of itself is a joke because they do not enforce those I have been told). I also did not ask the owner because I did not know that after 11 pm it was enforced and she did not know I would be there at that hour and knew I did not otherwise need one. So please stop phrasing your questions like I am an idiot. It is obvious they are running a scam and a simple sign would have solved a lot of problems not only for me but apparently for many others. In addition each year they keep changing their policy so what I have known for 8 years of doing service here may not apply to today anyway! I was just trying to find a way to go after them legally so that they cannot continue to pull this scam on others!

[justalayman]

Originally Posted by loloman

So please stop phrasing your questions like I am an idiot. It is obvious they are running a scam and a simple sign would have solved a lot of problems not only for me but apparently for many others!

I was not aware that I was nor did I intend to.

BTW: there was a simple sign. It was at the entrance. You told us it said permit required. How do you get any simpler than that?

Oh well. Follow Carl's advice. He has an intimate knowledge of California's laws. I