?cited for moving violation while parked?

[555]

What is the name of your state?
California
Was parked in public parking lot (fenced in lot; parked appropriately within marked lines). Had driver's side door open and was on passenger side, trying to fix a blown fuse. Open door was within marked lines for my space; not blocking/not in the way of any car that could pass by. Police came up and asked for driver's license. Was cited for moving violation. (CA vehicle code 22517). Paid the ticket ($142) but am contesting it by written letter by mail (permitted to do this). Makes no sense to be cited for moving violation, while parked, and while parked appropriately. Comments???

[CdwJava]

I would not think that CVC 22517 is applicable in a parking lot ...

22517. No person shall open the door of a vehicle on the side
available to moving traffic unless it is reasonably safe to do so and
can be done without interfering with the movement of such traffic,
nor shall any person leave a door open on the side of a vehicle
available to moving traffic for a period of time longer than
necessary to load or unload passengers.

And even if able to be done, unless the door was opened in a travel lane for traffic in the lot, I can't imagine that it would be applicable.

- Carl

[RetiredMotor]

Division 11 of the CVC covers moving violations.
21001. The provisions of this division refer exclusively to the
operation of vehicles upon the highways, unless a different place is
specifically referred to.
I was on motors for 20 years and I never heard of any officer citing in parking lot. CVC section 22517 is under 21001.

[You Are Guilty]

Personally, I think that's a total crock and would contest it, but technically, I think the cop may have a small shot.

Here's why:

360. "Highway" is a way or place of whatever nature, publicly
maintained and open to the use of the public for purposes of
vehicular travel. Highway includes street.

I'd fight it based on the "moving traffic" language. One, there was none in a parking lot space and two, even if there was, it was more than reasonably safe to leave a door open there.


Post back with the results, I'm curious to see how this plays out.

[CdwJava]

Originally Posted by You Are Guilty

Personally, I think that's a total crock and would contest it, but technically, I think the cop may have a small shot.

Here's why:



I'd fight it based on the "moving traffic" language. One, there was none in a parking lot space and two, even if there was, it was more than reasonably safe to leave a door open there.


Post back with the results, I'm curious to see how this plays out.

It IS interesting ... but!

The definition of traffic requires the presence of a highway:

CVC 620. The term "traffic" includes pedestrians, ridden animals,
vehicles, street cars, and other conveyances, either singly or
together, while using any highway for purposes of travel.

And a highway does not include a parking lot, which is defined as an offstreet parking facility:

(From CVC 12500(c)) "offstreet parking
facility" means any offstreet facility held open for use by the
public for parking vehicles and includes any publicly owned
facilities for offstreet parking, and privately owned facilities for
offstreet parking where no fee is charged for the privilege to park
and which are held open for the common public use of retail customers

My guess is that the officer will lose this one.

I, too, am interested in the outcome.

- Carl

Well, I hate to bust everyone's bubble but there is nothing to contest according to what OP wrote: Paid the ticket....

The case is closed and filed away.

[CdwJava]

Originally Posted by seniorjudge

Well, I hate to bust everyone's bubble but there is nothing to contest according to what OP wrote: Paid the ticket....

The case is closed and filed away.

Ah! But the vaguaries of CA law are at work once again!

In CA you generally have to pay the fine prior to contesting the violation. Hence, her added statement: "but am contesting it by written letter by mail (permitted to do this)."

You don't get to fight it til you pony up the fine. If you win, you get the money back.

- Carl

Originally Posted by CdwJava

Ah! But the vaguaries of CA law are at work once again!

In CA you generally have to pay the fine prior to contesting the violation. Hence, her added statement: "but am contesting it by written letter by mail (permitted to do this)."

You don't get to fight it til you pony up the fine. If you win, you get the money back.

- Carl

Carl, I am going to start adding to all my answers:

EXCEPT IN CALIFORNIA

[CdwJava]

Originally Posted by seniorjudge

Carl, I am going to start adding to all my answers:

EXCEPT IN CALIFORNIA

That's okay ... I used to think that other states had to do things like CA did. I mean ... fines on citations? Accepting payment at the stop? Civil citations? All sorts of things that are peculiar to me.

If we could only pass on the California way to the rest of the backwards states of the nation!

- Carl

[You Are Guilty]

"Curioser and curioser, where shall I begin..."

Carl - does that offstreet parking definition apply only to free private parking lots, or to both free public and private? Because if not, then the fee offstreet public parking would seem to qualify as a "highway," (unless there's yet another definition for parking lots who charge?!)



And now we all know why traffic law sucks.

[CdwJava]

Originally Posted by You Are Guilty

"Curioser and curioser, where shall I begin..."

Carl - does that offstreet parking definition apply only to free private parking lots, or to both free public and private? Because if not, then the fee offstreet public parking would seem to qualify as a "highway," (unless there's yet another definition for parking lots who charge?!)



And now we all know why traffic law sucks.

It applies to both. It includes "any publicly owned facilities for offstreet parking" as well as the private ones whether or not they charge a fee.

When I worked in a jurisdiction where we had all combinations of lots, it used to stretch the brains of many a newbie when they tried to figure out if a section applied or not. The general rule is that any parking lot is not going to be considered a highway.

And since a highway must be publicly maintained, a private parking lot (like to an apartment complex) would not qualify as either an "offstreet parking facility" OR a highway. Figure that one out!

Ah, the law!

- Carl

[RetiredMotor]

For those of you not in law enforcement, you are finding out it's all "Interpretation" of the law and the attitude of the officer.


360. "Highway" is a way or place of whatever nature, publicly
maintained and open to the use of the public for purposes of
vehicular travel. Highway includes street.

Now I interpret a parking lot as a place to PARK vehicles, not maintained for vehicle TRAVEL.

No matter how you cut it, it was a CS citation. Must have been the end of the month and his/her stats were down.

[CdwJava]

Originally Posted by seniorjudge

Carl, I am going to start adding to all my answers:

EXCEPT IN CALIFORNIA

Oh ... I probably should clarify as to the paying the fine up front thing ... I have found that it is often done when a person wants to contest their citation in writing as opposed to contesting it in person. You can still appear in person prior to paying the citation ... you only pay it when ... er, IF ... you lose.


- Carl

Originally Posted by wirry1422

...(No need to answer, retorical question only)...

....ok....

[CdwJava]

Originally Posted by wirry1422

hey where's the smart alecky reply of racer72, or does he only answer simple questions, where he has an opportunity to annoy legitimately confused people with his snide remarks and condescending signature? (No need to answer, retorical question only)

You joined this board simply to post THAT?

Wow! That's dedication!


- Carl