Code Violation 21456 - green to "flashy"hand crossing

[Janesays]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California
Violation 21456 "b/c.v.c. - OBS viol cross st against a red don't walk signal"

Hello Everyone,

My friend and I both got tickets for crossing on a "flashing" red hand in the crosswalk. The light was green when we stepped off the sidewalk, but started flashing as we stepped into the crosswalk. We were received at the other side by an officer on a bicycle. I never knew that being in the crosswalk during a flashing hand was illegal, but apparently it is. (We noticed later that they were ticketing entire families for similar violations - strollers included!). This happened in downtown Los Angeles.

What would be a good way to write a "Trial by Declaration" for such a violation? And do we send out bail with the letter? Obviously, we are both going to plead "not guilty."

I've never had anything on my record and my driving record is also clean.

Thank you in advance for your assistance.

 

[FlyingRon]

You are not to leave the sidewalk when the hand (flashy or solid) is on. If it turns flashy while you are already in the street, you continue. If it turns solid RUN!!!

 

[Janesays]

Split second green

Yes - it was green when we stepped off, and when it flashed, we hauled ass. Reward for long legs getting me to the other side before the flashing even stopped? Not a warning, but a nice ticket. Meanwhile, people are speeding by in cars and illegal designer knock-off bags are being sold on every corner. Yep. That's justice.

 

[FlyingRon]

By green, I assume you mean the WALK (either the word WALK or the little walking man). The green traffic signal does NOT override the DONT WALK indication .


Walk, Wait, or Don't Walk

21456. Whenever a pedestrian control signal showing the words "WALK" or "WAIT" or "DON'T WALK" or other approved symbol is in place, the signal shall indicate as follows:
(a) "WALK" or approved "Walking Person" symbol. A pedestrian facing the signal may proceed across the roadway in the direction of the signal, but shall yield the right-of-way to vehicles lawfully within the intersection at the time that signal is first shown.

(b) Flashing or steady "DON'T WALK" or "WAIT" or approved "Upraised Hand" symbol. No pedestrian shall start to cross the roadway in the direction of the signal, but any pedestrian who has partially completed crossing shall proceed to a sidewalk or safety zone or otherwise leave the roadway while the "WAIT" or "DON'T WALK" or approved "Upraised Hand" symbol is showing.

 

[patstew]

Meanwhile, people are speeding by in cars and illegal designer knock-off bags are being sold on every corner. Yep. That's justice./QUOTE]

So you want them to enforce just the laws that you don't break?

 

[Alex23]

I suspect that the OP (and the rest of us) will continue to jaywalk, despite the laws regulating street crossing.

 

[Janesays]

The fact is that I did not break the law. The little hand was green when I stepped into the crosswalk, and upon arrival to the other side - it was flashing. But I guess that officers are always right and now the city can make 300 dollars off each person who gets a ticket like this.
Thanks anyway ...

 

[Janesays]

So I didn't break the law; it was "green/walk" when I stepped into the crosswalk, (the "walk" hand was on), and then "flashing red hand/Don't walk" by the time I got to the other side. Oh and there were no vehicles present. We were not in a car either, so we were not looking for the signals made for vehicles.

Ped for 37 years ...

By green, I assume you mean the WALK (either the word WALK or the little walking man). The green traffic signal does NOT override the DONT WALK indication .


Walk, Wait, or Don't Walk

21456. Whenever a pedestrian control signal showing the words "WALK" or "WAIT" or "DON'T WALK" or other approved symbol is in place, the signal shall indicate as follows:
(a) "WALK" or approved "Walking Person" symbol. A pedestrian facing the signal may proceed across the roadway in the direction of the signal, but shall yield the right-of-way to vehicles lawfully within the intersection at the time that signal is first shown.

(b) Flashing or steady "DON'T WALK" or "WAIT" or approved "Upraised Hand" symbol. No pedestrian shall start to cross the roadway in the direction of the signal, but any pedestrian who has partially completed crossing shall proceed to a sidewalk or safety zone or otherwise leave the roadway while the "WAIT" or "DON'T WALK" or approved "Upraised Hand" symbol is showing.

 

[FlyingRon]

The fact is that I did not break the law. The little hand was green when I stepped into the crosswalk, and upon arrival to the other side - it was flashing. But I guess that officers are always right and now the city can make 300 dollars off each person who gets a ticket like this.
Thanks anyway ...

You say that in court and you're going to look like an idiot. There is no GREEN HAND on the walk signal. The only thing you will see is the word WALK or the WALKING MAN (both of whcih should be white). The HAND or the words DONT WALK should be RED
If you're going to perjure yourself in court, at least get the story plausible.

Or maybe it was this:
http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/idi0076l.jpg (too bad I can't post pictures here).

 

[I_Got_Banned]

http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/idi0076l.jpg

hahahaha

(too bad I can't post pictures here).

No, it's not "too bad". You could get BANNED for posting a picture of someone's little peeper!

The little hand was green ...

Actually, FlyingRon, I do think that I have seen the little hand/walking man with a somewhat of a greenish hue to it... Maybe they were out of white bulbs for a few days and some signals got greenish ones!!!

Janesays, what intersection was this on in Downtown?
I'm in Downtown L. A. right now...
I'll check it right now to see if it has a green hand or a white hand (for those of you who are quicker to type than to think, that is NOT a racist remark).

This must be a city wide program that LAPD is enforcing... I see an LAPD motorcycle officer every morning on Wilshire & Vermont and like you said, they cite everybody... I have also seen them on both sides of Pershing Square, where the Metro train riders come up the escalator and run across the street to catch local buses...

Lastly, and although I am not sure how the fine splits up and how much the city gets... But considering the fact the the City of Los Angeles is facing a $400 million budget deficit, (and this goes to Janesays) many of L A's residents thank you for your contribution! The honorable Mayor, Antonio Villaraigosa thanks you!

 

[I_Got_Banned]

What would be a good way to write a "Trial by Declaration" for such a violation?

In all honesty, and based on what you said, it is your word against that of the officer so regardless of how you say it, the commissioner reading your declaration will usually side with the officer's statement over yours.

And do we send out bail with the letter?

Well, according to CVC section 40902 which states:

40902 (b) If the defendant elects to have a trial by written declaration, the defendant shall, at the time of submitting that declaration, submit bail in the amount established in the uniform traffic penalty schedule pursuant to Section 40310. If the defendant is found not guilty or if the charges are otherwise dismissed, the amount of the bail shall be promptly refunded to the defendant.

So that is saying that you get to elect TBD, the court will send you the forms by mail (stamped with the deadline to submit your declaration), once you complete your statements, you can personally turn them in along with the bail amount (which by the way is NOT $300 like you stated... It should be about $97)...

However, when you contact the court, in person or by telephone, they will insist that you post bail upon submitting your request for the declaration.

Good luck...

 

[CdwJava]

And to offer another estimate of the bail, according to the California Uniform Bail and Penalty Schedule (2008), the estimated bail and fees should be about $108.

- Carl

 

[Janesays]

Thanks guys! Well, its good to know that there are savvy officers out there who will do just about anything to hit their quotas - including duping honest citizens who were just trying to cross the street - in a crosswalk ... and next time I'm downtown, I'll know not to even bother crossing the street anywhere near an officer. And if they ever approach me for anything, I'll turn my head the other way. In this case after crossing on the green to flashy, I thought they were looking for a suspect since we were in the fringes of skid row! So I responded to his "waving" at me. Guess I watch too much TV!). And I just got my paper in the mail: $132 plus fees that may exceed $300. I looked up "infraction" earlier, and it said anywhere between $250-300, so I was nervous. Regardless of the amount, that $132 is my spending money for a month (got laid off in October). Guess I have to sell some illegal drugs to raise the money ... or maybe I'll go turn some tricks or something. HA HA.

Thanks everyone for your help! Have a great holiday season.

 

[Janesays]

I'm going to do a trial by declaration for this as soon as I can find the money to pay the bail. Obviously, I am not going to use conversational bulletin board descriptions in my letter to the court.


NOT GUILTY.

Funny cartoon by the way...

You say that in court and you're going to look like an idiot. There is no GREEN HAND on the walk signal. The only thing you will see is the word WALK or the WALKING MAN (both of whcih should be white). The HAND or the words DONT WALK should be RED
If you're going to perjure yourself in court, at least get the story plausible.

Or maybe it was this:
http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/idi0076l.jpg (too bad I can't post pictures here).

 

[CdwJava]

Thanks guys! Well, its good to know that there are savvy officers out there who will do just about anything to hit their quotas - including duping honest citizens who were just trying to cross the street - in a crosswalk

First, quotas are patently unlawful in California, so if you have any proof that there WAS a quota, certainly bring that up. Second, if the officer believed you violated the code section and he cited you, he was doing his job. If you believe you are not guilty, you go to trial and argue your case.

And I just got my paper in the mail: $132 plus fees that may exceed $300.

You were cited for ONLY CVC 21456(b)? That seems AWFULLY high for that section, even if you are in one of those counties that are allowed to charge higher fees.


- Carl