Crosswalk violation: I think I'm innocent

[pk2many]

New York, NY

I parked at a "T" intersection, my car was towed, and I was issued two tickets for "blocking pedestrian ramp (F) (7)" both for $165. I paid the towing fine of $185, and the tickets. I did a search at nyc.gov to see if I'd missed any tickets and found a new one listed for the same day as one of those I'd already paid, same infraction, $165. In researching if I could be ticketed twice for the same infraction on the same day, I found that where I parked may not've been a crosswalk at all, which I guess would mean that ALL of the tickets AND the tow were illegitimate.

My questions are:

1. Can I be given two tickets for the same thing on the same day.
2. How do I find out, definitively, if I parked in a cross-walk or not.
3. If I already paid two tickets for the infraction, in so doing have I admitted guilt (even though the charge might be bogus) and does that preclude me from seeking a refund?

Thanks.

JOEWhat is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

[FlyingRon]

Blocking pedestrian ramp doesn't require a marked crosswalk.
Read this:
[url=http://www.newyorkparkingticket.com/Blog/bid/24537/How-to-Beat-a-NYC-Parking-Ticket-for-Blocking-a-Pedestrian-Ramp]How to Beat a NYC Parking Ticket for Blocking a Pedestrian Ramp[/url]

[pk2many]

Thanks, I DID read that. It's what got me on all of this in the first place. It states:

"Unless a pedestrian ramp is situated at a marked or unmarked crosswalk, as defined by the Traffic Rules, a summons should not be issued for blocking the ramp. Specifically, a pedestrian ramp located on the long street of a 'T' intersection may be blocked by parked vehicles, unless the crosswalk is marked, or there is a traffic sign or signal controlling all opposing traffic"

The ramp in question was "on the long street of a 'T'", no cross-walk was marked, and there is no "traffic sign or signal controlling all opposing traffic."

"Opposing traffic" I understand to be traffic that would pass through the cross-walk area in question. I guess the main issue here is do the "Traffic Rules" define a crosswalk by the presence of a light or stop-sign?

Am I doin' any better?

[HighwayMan]

"Long Street" has no meaning to me. Can you describe what this is supposed to mean?

Why don't you check the Traffic Rules to find the definition of a crosswalk. It says:

Crosswalk.
(i) Marked crosswalk. That part of a roadway defined by two parallel
lines or highlighted by a pattern of lines (perpendicular, parallel or
diagonal used either separately or in combination) that is intended to
guide pedestrians into proper crossing paths.
(ii) Unmarked crosswalk. That part of a roadway, other than a marked
crosswalk, which is included within the extensions of the sidewalk lines
between opposite sides of the roadway at an intersection.

[HighwayMan]

Originally Posted by pk2many

1. Can I be given two tickets for the same thing on the same day.
2. How do I find out, definitively, if I parked in a cross-walk or not.
3. If I already paid two tickets for the infraction, in so doing have I admitted guilt (even though the charge might be bogus) and does that preclude me from seeking a refund?

1. Absolutely.

2. See the definition of a crosswalk.

3. You already pled guilty. There's no going back. You admitted liability. Pleading guilty is the same as being convicted after a hearing.

[nomoretickets]

Please read my last post from the thread [url]http://forum.freeadvice.com/parking-tickets-non-moving-violations-44/crosswalk-wrong-way-parking-tickets-nyc-482683.html[/url] where I just described how I got 1 ticket dismissed, and apparently the reason the judge used was that I got it at the same time with an other ticket (they were for different violations).

While I read different info online and I think I saw somewhere that there is a 20 minutes interval that has to occur between 2 summons for the same violation, if you would have gone with all your tickets to a finance office probably you would have gotten a fair chance to have some of them dismissed. If I were you, I would still try it with the 3rd ticket you say you found online, but make sure that this is not actually one of your other 2 tickets, as maybe it hasn't been recorded properly as paid. I am not an expert, but my understanding is that it is next to impossible to fight a ticket once you plead guilty.

Also, because one of my offenses was a crosswalk as well, I will give my 2 cents about my understanding of the offense. If you parked in the continuation of the lines of the sidewalk then you are guilty. Try Google maps and street view for the location, maybe you can get an idea. If your pedestrian ramp was in the middle of the block, or away from the continuation of the lines of a sidewalk at an intersection then you might not have been guilty. It is probably of little relevance to you now, as technically you are guilty of the ones you paid for.

Good luck with the unpaid one, and good luck not getting other tickets. If you do, probably you know better now, as you should do your research before paying the fines.

[FlyingRon]

Originally Posted by HighwayMan

"Long Street" has no meaning to me. Can you describe what this is supposed to mean?

The long street is just referring to the one that doesn't end at the T.
(i.e. the horizontal part of the letter T).

If there is no croswalk, stop sign, yield sign, or traffic light, you're free to block any ramp that may be on the long street. Otherwise, there is an implicit unmarked crosswalk there and you can't block the ramp.

[pk2many]

Originally Posted by FlyingRon

If there is no croswalk, stop sign, yield sign, or traffic light, you're free to block any ramp that may be on the long street.

Great, this is what I wanted to know, the precise situation I was in. Does this exception appear somewhere in the Traffic Rules as well? I'm sorry, but I don't find it. Found the F7, Ped-Ramp law, top of page 28...

[You Are Guilty]

Originally Posted by pk2many

Great, this is what I wanted to know, the precise situation I was in. Does this exception appear somewhere in the Traffic Rules as well? I'm sorry, but I don't find it. Found the F7, Ped-Ramp law, top of page 28...

You can't find it because he's wrong, no such rule exists. The rule states:

Originally Posted by NYC Traffic Rules s.4-08

(f)No person shall stand or park a vehicle in any of the following places, unless otherwise indicated by posted signs, markings or other traffic control devices, or at the direction of a law enforcement officer:
(2) Driveways and pedestrian ramps. In front of a public or private driveway or pedestrian ramp, except that it shall be permissible for the owner, lessor or lessee of the lot accessed by a private driveway, ...

As you can see, no exception for "long streets".

[HighwayMan]

You beat me to it YAG.

"Long street" means nothing and streets like this are not special cases.

Pedestrian ramps cannot be blocked ANYWHERE. It matters not where on the street they are located.