CVC 22500 Stop on Roadway

[kapeedmaro]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA
Hi there - let me thank you first for any advice I'll get on this.
Here's my situation:
I was approaching an intersection when the light turned red.
When I stopped I was maybe sixth car in the row.
While waiting for the light to turn green, some of the cars that were in front of me, went right, and that made a gap between me and a car directly in front of me.
At the same time some guy wanted to join the traffic from a small plaza on my right - so having the gap in front I just waved at the guy to go ahead and join in, since light was still red.
He was a bit hesitant (as turned out he wanted to go left, across the two lanes - to the other side), but he finally did it.The light was red for entire time. No honking cars behind me, impatient drivers, no conflict with other traffic. nothing.
Then I saw a cop on a motorcycle,lights flashing and all - and I got me a ticked.
What are my chances fighting this? Was this really illegal situation when I was just courteous to other driver and I (legally) stopped on a red light?
Does the law specify a min/max distance (a space cushion) between two cars when stopped in traffic?
What if I just didn't pull in when other cars went right, and there were no guy I wanted to let join?

Thank you for any advice

 

[CdwJava]

What subsection were you cited for?

VC 22500 is most often used as a parking violation, but it also requires a subsection of (a) through (l).

 

[kapeedmaro]

It's a 22500 (a)

so that makes it Prohibited Stopping, Standing, or Parking (a) Within an intersection, except adjacent to curbs as may be permitted by local ordinance.

 

[asiny]

I was approaching an intersection when the light turned red.
When I stopped I was maybe sixth car in the row.
While waiting for the light to turn green, some of the cars that were in front of me, went right, and that made a gap between me and a car directly in front of me.
At the same time some guy wanted to join the traffic from a small plaza on my right - so having the gap in front I just waved at the guy to go ahead and join in, since light was still red.
He was a bit hesitant (as turned out he wanted to go left, across the two lanes - to the other side), but he finally did it.The light was red for entire time. No honking cars behind me, impatient drivers, no conflict with other traffic. nothing.

How did you know which way the driver, coming from the plaza, wanted to make a legal turn?
Did he have his indicator on?
Why would you wave him out, if he was turning into your lane of traffic, heading the same direction as you?

Then I saw a cop on a motorcycle,lights flashing and all - and I got me a ticked.
What are my chances fighting this? Was this really illegal situation when I was just courteous to other driver and I (legally) stopped on a red light?

No good deed goes unpunished. Although you did let out a driver who made an illegal left turn. Although, based on what I could find on your question (below), you may have a decent argument on this.

Does the law specify a min/max distance (a space cushion) between two cars when stopped in traffic?

Best I could find... distances are regulated in following another motor vehicle. As to the distances between a stationary vehicle in front of another stationary vehicle, there seems to be no regulations, just suggestions. You are to allow enough distance between your vehicle and the vehicle in front of you that you can see where that vehicle's rear tires contact the pavement.

Other users, who are more well-versed in CVC legalities, will post their sound advice- those folks, I would listen to.

What if I just didn't pull in when other cars went right, and there were no guy I wanted to let join?

Hypothetical- difficult to answer. On one-hand, the officer may not have paid attention to what happened without the illegal left-turning driver.. on the other, he might have.

 

[CdwJava]

There's your problem - you appear to have stopped within an intersection. That's bad news because it tends to block intersections.

If you were NOT at an intersection ...

365. An "intersection" is the area embraced within the prolongation
of the lateral curb lines, or, if none, then the lateral boundary
lines of the roadways, of two highways which join one another at
approximately right angles or the area within which vehicles
traveling upon different highways joining at any other angle may come
in conflict.​

... then you may have a viable defense to the citation as it would not apply (assuming VC 22500(a) is the violation).

 

[kapeedmaro]

How did you know which way the driver, coming from the plaza, wanted to make a legal turn?
Did he have his indicator on?
Why would you wave him out, if he was turning into your lane of traffic, heading the same direction as you?

He didn't have his blinker on.
and his turn wasn't illegal - the street I was on has two lanes in each direction - I was heading South - he wanted to go North. to do that he he had to "jump" the two South lanes. that's why he was a bit hesitant at the beginning.

No good deed goes unpunished.

True...

 

[kapeedmaro]

There's your problem - you appear to have stopped within an intersection. That's bad news because it tends to block intersections.

If you were NOT at an intersection ...

365. An "intersection" is the area embraced within the prolongation
of the lateral curb lines, or, if none, then the lateral boundary
lines of the roadways, of two highways which join one another at
approximately right angles or the area within which vehicles
traveling upon different highways joining at any other angle may come
in conflict.​

... then you may have a viable defense to the citation as it would not apply (assuming VC 22500(a) is the violation).

Great! - Thank you much!
I wasn't at the intersection - I was at least six car lengths from it.

 

[CdwJava]

If the roadway from the "small plaza" to your right was a roadway or alley (government maintained) then it sounds like you might have been in an intersection. But, if it was a driveway (privately maintained) then 22500(a) would not appear to apply.

You wouldn't happen to have a Google maps location, would you?

 

[kapeedmaro]

If the roadway from the "small plaza" to your right was a roadway or alley (government maintained) then it sounds like you might have been in an intersection. But, if it was a driveway (privately maintained) then 22500(a) would not appear to apply.

You wouldn't happen to have a Google maps location, would you?

the car was leaving from where the green arrow points:
33.527441,-117.710245 - Google Maps

looking at it I could have been even further away than six cars away. I was where the black car is, but on the very right lane.
Or it could have been the second plaza driveway - the one closer to the gas station, where the right turn lane starts.

 

[CdwJava]

Seems clear to me that 22500(a) would not apply. If the officer had felt so strongly about it, he should have cited you for impeding traffic per VC 22400(a). But, even that would have been pretty weak if the situation is as you said.

 

[kapeedmaro]

Seems clear to me that 22500(a) would not apply. If the officer had felt so strongly about it, he should have cited you for impeding traffic per VC 22400(a). But, even that would have been pretty weak if the situation is as you said.

Thank you for all your time and advice.
I got the Trial today. Let you know how it went.

If I'm ever in Nor Cal - a double mocha and a croissant are on me

 

[kapeedmaro]

Let me thank you CdwJava one more time for all your help.
my verdict was NOT GUILTY!
I did print that satellite view of the location from google maps, which helped a lot, and I told the Judge that, since I wasn't at the intersection, VC22400(a) probably would "fit" better.

So you were totally right! and VC22500(a) didn't apply in my case.

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!

 

[CdwJava]

You're welcome. Though I am disappointed that a motorcycle officer couldn't think of something better than 22500(a). Those guys are usually gurus of the Vehicle Code, but that one is a mystery to me.

Was the officer there? Did the judge ask him to respond when you pointed out the elements of the offense that included it be at an intersection?

 

[kapeedmaro]

Yes - he was there, and was using the blackboard, which compared to my satellite photo didn't look that good (If I had to draw it - it probably would have been even worse, though - so thanks for that google tip).
That photo clearly showed I was far from the intersection.
He also said that the light went green,while I was still waiting, and cars were honking. I told the Judge that I don't know if my word is strong enough against Officers, but that particular thing wasn't true.

I printed out your definition of intersection, along with a photo I found online (with outlines).
The Judge read CV22500(a) and asked the Police Officer does he agree that I wasn't at the intersection, therefore citation per VC 22500(a) didn't apply. He said yes, and that he chose not to give me other citations at the time - like VC22400(a). But the judge said that I'm not guilty and free to go

I'm so glad it's over. and thanks to your tips and advice I won't have to eat ramen for the rest of the month