Fighting a parking ticket on the basis of a "Required Element" mistake question.

[romeo0o]

Fighting a parking ticket on the basis of a "Required Element" mistake question.

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? NY

I've tried searching but was unable to find the topic for my concern.

My father received a citation and on the physical parking violation notice, the plate type and make is incorrect. However, online in the nyc.gov database where you can pay or plead, the plate and make is correct.

Would we be able to get this ticket dismissed since the physical summons given to him was incorrect although details online are? The link to open an image of said ticket opens an error page if that matters.

Thanks in advance.

The answer to this would be helpful and informative for the future

 

[HighwayMan]

Is this New York City? If so was it a computer printed ticket or hand-written?

 

[romeo0o]

Is this New York City? If so was it a computer printed ticket or hand-written?

Yes this is New York City. And it was a computer printed ticket with the wrong make.

Violation was for expired commercial meter zone. Printed ticket says commercial plate type. Online says Passenger plate type.

It's a little confusing with the whole plate type thing too because the vehicle is registered for Michigan under commercial plates but I don't believe the registration card reflects any plate type.

So I would argue the make since evidence of that I do have readily available. Thanks for the reply.

 

[Zigner]

It sounds to me like you got somebody else's ticket (and they likely got yours)

 

[HighwayMan]

I'm going to let you know that if the owner of the vehicle lives in NY then the vehicle must be registered in NY, not Michigan. It's unusual for a commercial vehicle from MI to be parked on a city street.

Are the other details on the violation notice correct?

I don't understand how the violation says one thing and the record online says something else. The ONLY source for the information would be the printed violation notice and it cannot be changed after it's issued.

When you look it up online are you looking it up by the violation number? Or by the plate?

 

[romeo0o]

I looked it up first via violation number and then verified with plate number. It's the same one ticket. Same plate number from both resources.

My father has a MI license and lives in MI. He drove to NY in the commercial vehicle cited to pick up merchandise for his business.

The computer printed ticket says make is FERR and plate type is COM.

Before the online payment page, it says make is FORD and the plate type is PAS.

He faxed me over the insurance policy and registration card and his plates matches it. It doesn't say commercial anywhere but MI commercial plates are CC##### which is his. Their passenger vehicle plates are CCC####. It's unlike NY how the word 'commercial' is printed on the plate itself.

A strange case this one is turning out to be...

 

[HighwayMan]

So then how is it a commercial plate? If Michigan has no commercial plates then he would have gotten a ticket for parking there no matter if he paid the meter or not.Again, what was the violation written for? What code/section?

You would have to check with the Department of Finance, but I believe HE is the only one who can fight the violation. I was going to suggest going in person and actually speaking with a judge, but that's apparently not possible. He can try adjudicating the violation online and he can submit copies of documents online as well if I remember correctly. The difference between the violation and the online record doesn't make sense at all.

I honestly don't know how the out-of-state plates are dealt with in this situation. I know some states do not have "commercial" plates. If I came across one of these parked in a commercial zone I would write it for the violation but I have no idea what happens if they're adjudicated.

On a side note, how many years has your father been making these trips? Has he ever gotten parking tickets before? It was a long time ago but I vaguely remember writing someone under what I believe were the same circumstances from the same state. I wonder if it was him! What kind of truck does he have? Is it a van or small box truck?

 

[FlyingRon]

Note WELL not withstanding anything your registration says, the definition of COMMERCIAL in New York City has SPECIFIC meaning which is more than how/who the vehicle is registered to.

 

[justalayman]

HighwayMan;3273328]So then how is it a commercial plate? If Michigan has no commercial plates then he would have gotten a ticket for parking there no matter if he paid the meter or not.Again, what was the violation written for? What code/section?

they do have a commercial plate. It is just not ascertainable simply by looking at the plate unless you understand MI's nomenclature. I have to accept OP's statement as I have not checked recently but his description is correct for the a previous time though.

plates for commercial vehicles (and at one time they reversed this though and I do not recall the specific years for either style)

2 letters followed by 4 numbers. Sometimes there is a space between the numbers and letters, sometimes not.


passenger vehicles are:

three letters and 3 or 4 numbers sometimes separated with a space, sometimes not. The number of numbers and whether a space is used is dependent on the year of issue.

but if you toss in the "special" plates, there is no rhyme or reason for the numbering system used that is easily determined.

they also have an apportioned plate which says apportioned on it. I believe NY belongs to that system where apportioned plates are available in NY as well. I don't think that is the type of registration involved here though.

there is also a "GVW" commercial plate as well where the fees for the registration are based on the GVW of the vehicle. Any commercial vehicle with a gvw over 8,000, (unless it is to transport people for hire) requires a GVW commercial plate (although it doesn't say commercial on it either). If I recall correctly, there is a GVW sticker much like the exp year sticker denoting the GVW weight it is registered as.

You would have to check with the Department of Finance, but I believe HE is the only one who can fight the violation. I was going to suggest going in person and actually speaking with a judge, but that's apparently not possible. He can try adjudicating the violation online and he can submit copies of documents online as well if I remember correctly. The difference between the violation and the online record doesn't make sense at all.

I am curious; doesn't FERR stand for Ferrari when speaking of make? are the computer printed tickets subject to such poor printing that FORD could end up looking like FERR?

I honestly don't know how the out-of-state plates are dealt with in this situation. I know some states do not have "commercial" plates. If I came across one of these parked in a commercial zone I would write it for the violation but I have no idea what happens if they're adjudicated.

Not sure the OP is actually contesting the ticket itself as invalid but simply asking about contesting it on the statement of FERR and COM on the ticket and FORD and PAS on the computer information.

 

[HighwayMan]

NYS uses the first five characters of the make on registrations, and that's what we use on various type of tickets and violations, so Ferrari >should< be "FERRA".

Seems like more than a printer issue when it comes to COM vs PAS. The traffic agent who wrote this violation would certainly have been correct noting "PAS" if there was no wording on the plate that said "commercial".

There are many, many times when a hand-written violation cannot be read or is read incorrectly and it doesn't matter as long as the submitted copy of the violation is legible. However, in this case there should be no such issues. I've never seen or heard of anything like this happening.

 

[justalayman]

NYS uses the first five characters of the make on registrations, and that's what we use on various type of tickets and violations, so Ferrari >should< be "FERRA".
.

but they also only used the first 4 letters of FORD as well.

 

[romeo0o]

Highwayman,

it's a ford e250 van. MI has commercial plates because I remember having to help him with customizing the van with the appropriate business credentials on both door panels among other things similar to NYS rules and regulation. This was at least 5 years ago. I'm pretty sure this isn't his first ticket so maybe it was you! Anyhow, this is the first meter violation ticket he's given me to help him take care of.

You can't mistake the van for PAS, that's for sure. But then again, you also can't mistake the FORD for a FERR. So I'm wondering did the traffic enforcer purposely let this one slide...

Because of the mismatched information on ticket and computer, I wonder which one do judges look at when they're being contested. I'm just so confused as to how things can be altered like that.

 

[HighwayMan]

You can't mistake the van for PAS, that's for sure.

Of course we can. When the plate does not say "commercial" the assumption is that it is a passenger plate. No one outside of Michigan would likely know what format of letters and numbers is commercial or passenger. If you ask me, I'd say that's totally ridiculous, especially once a vanity plate is involved.

Because of the mismatched information on ticket and computer, I wonder which one do judges look at when they're being contested. I'm just so confused as to how things can be altered like that.

That's the issue. This is best adjudicated in person and I'd be willing to bet that it would be dismissed. You should check with the DoF and see if YOU can appear in lieu of the owner at a hearing. I don't know off the top of my head if you can. Say you were the driver and see what they say.

If you can then present the service copy of the violation along with the printout of the violation info from the website. See what happens.

If you can't appear then check if you can submit documents online and adjudicate it that way, or else it will have to be done by mail.

Of course, you can always enter a guilty plea and pay the fine since it appears that you are admitting guilt. It's all up to you and your father.

 

[HighwayMan]

it's a ford e250 van. MI has commercial plates because I remember having to help him with customizing the van with the appropriate business credentials on both door panels among other things similar to NYS rules and regulation.

That's NYC law not NYS. Did he receive any ticket in the past for having an unmarked commercial vehicle?

Yes, there is something about this that sounds extremely familiar. I'm thinking that I definitely had contact with your father and his van some years ago.

 

[romeo0o]

If I find some time, I would try to contest it in person. Perhaps I'd find the answer as to why details are conflicting between the two.

He comes several times a year, so I wouldn't be surprised. The business van wasn't marked at one point because he thought it wasn't required as many businesses in MI didn't have them marked. Not sure if he ever received a ticket for it though. It's possible.

Thank you for your help. Cheers.

Regards.