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gross polluter ticket

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airken

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California

Re: vehicle code 27156 a

So, my 82 year old parents got a ticket the other day because the officer claimed there was a "large plume of smoke" coming from their tail pipe. the officer asked my father to watch from behind the vehicle as my mother started the car and revved the engine...no smoke.

"well, the car probably needs to warm up first" the officer claimed. my parents informed the officer that they had driven only three blocks before being stopped. he wrote them up and said don't worry, there's no fine. and sent them on their way.

next they receive a "minute order" that says he has a bail schedule of $270.00 for "gross polluter left on highway" (not sure why since my parents were stopped while driving on a city street). there is also a fine of $100, PA of $300 and fees of $80 and they are scheduled for a courtroom trial in january.

my folks went to have the car smog checked and it passed. no repairs were done to the car before or after the test.

the car is not a "gross polluter" by any current standard. what do they do? and do they have any recourse to recover their wasted time and money for the smog test and court appearance?

my guess is the (expletive deleted) police officer won't even show up. what an immense waste of time and money hoping my folks just cave and it's more money to the state because of apathy.
 


CdwJava

Senior Member
next they receive a "minute order" that says he has a bail schedule of $270.00 for "gross polluter left on highway" (not sure why since my parents were stopped while driving on a city street). there is also a fine of $100, PA of $300 and fees of $80 and they are scheduled for a courtroom trial in january.
A "highway" also includes city street. That is a term to cover most any publicly maintained surface used primarily for motor vehicle traffic.

my folks went to have the car smog checked and it passed. no repairs were done to the car before or after the test.
This is a correctable violation per CVC 40150. They should be able to appear and have the matter dismissed for only a $25 fee.

40150. Whenever any vehicle or combination of vehicles is found to
be in an unsafe mechanical condition or is not equipped as required
by this code, and a notice to appear is issued or a complaint filed
for such violation, the notice to appear or the complaint may require
that the person to whom the notice to appear is issued or against
whom the complaint is filed shall produce in court satisfactory
evidence that the vehicle or its equipment has been made to conform
with the requirements of this code.​

The court can make this correctable even if it is not offered as an option in the courtesy notice.
 

airken

Junior Member
thank you

Thanks dude,

apprecieate the info and experience.

but, my parents anger arises from the fact that the car is not a gross polluter. it passes a smog test and doesn't belch smoke. they're out what $40 for the smog test plus having to go to court to prove that their car isn't a gross polluter? i think they and i have problem with the fact that the car is and was clean. why should they have to pay a $25 fine in the first place plus have to pay for another smog check. it was smogged the last time they had to register the car.

i apologize for the anger, but wouldn't this have all gone better if the officer had told my folks, "well, there's no smoke now, but i saw some before i pulled you over, you might want to have it checked out for your own safety". and send them on their way. now it feels like this officer could do this to anyone he feels like doing it to.

and i'm guessing, they (my parents) have no recourse at this point. a gross polluting car shouldn't be able to pass a smog test. i don't know how they prove they didn't "fix" the car before having it smogged. or how they prove it didn't need "fixing" before the smog check. do they just pay the fine and move along?

just doesn't feel right.
 
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CdwJava

Senior Member
Thanks dude,

apprecieate the info and experience.

but, my parents anger arises from the fact that the car is not a gross polluter. it passes a smog test and doesn't belch smoke. they're out what $40 for the smog test plus having to go to court to prove that their car isn't a gross polluter? i think they and i have problem with the fact that the car is and was clean. why should they have to pay a $25 fine in the first place plus have to pay for another smog check. it was smogged the last time they had to register the car.
An arrest (or, in this case, a citation) requires only probable cause to believe an offense occurred not absolute certainty. A car belching inordinate amounts of smoke might very well give rise to said probable cause.

i apologize for the anger, but wouldn't this have all gone better if the officer had told my folks, "well, there's no smoke now, but i saw some before i pulled you over, you might want to have it checked out for your own safety". and send them on their way. now it feels like this officer could do this to anyone he feels like doing it to.
If the car is belching smoke as it goes along, maybe he could. Even if it is temporary it can indicate an oil leak into the engine, cracked head, or any one of a number of problems that could fall under this category. I've never cited for that section, so I am not quite sure how the courts would react to it.

and i'm guessing, they (my parents) have no recourse at this point. a gross polluting car shouldn't be able to pass a smog test. i don't know how they prove they didn't "fix" the car before having it smogged. or how they prove it didn't need "fixing" before the smog check. do they just pay the fine and move along?
As a correctable violation, it shouldn't matter when they fixed it - before or after.

Paying $25 is a heck of a lot better than the hundreds they might otherwise have to pay.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
Typical CA cop, 10 million illegals walk past him every day and he picks on the elderly couple.
Hmmm ... being an illegal alien is not a crime in CA. Neither is being elderly. But, having a malfunctioning exhaust system is. And challenging the elements of the offense in court would certainly be valid. The OP's folks can take either angle - go to court with proof of correction, or, they can go to court and fight the offense on the elements. The correction should require one appearance. Scheduling the matter for trial will require two: Arraignment and trial.
 
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Antigone*

Senior Member
Hmmm ... being an illegal alien is not a crime in CA. Neither is being elderly. But, having a malfunctioning exhaust system is.
This type of response is not surprising from startedone, victorxyz. He keeps coming back under different usernames, but the results are still the same ~ irrelevant jibberish.
 

airken

Junior Member
An arrest (or, in this case, a citation) requires only probable cause to believe an offense occurred not absolute certainty. A car belching inordinate amounts of smoke might very well give rise to said probable cause.
Let me make sure everyone understands that the car did not and does not belch smoke. it barely makes whisps of smoke that any car does now a days.

If the car is belching smoke as it goes along, maybe he could. Even if it is temporary it can indicate an oil leak into the engine, cracked head, or any one of a number of problems that could fall under this category. I've never cited for that section, so I am not quite sure how the courts would react to it.
the officer and my father stood behind the car while my mom revved the engine several times and no smoke. ok, so maybe temporary and non reproducible, but again why not "maybe have it looked at for your own safety" instead of taking $25 from an 82 year old man and his wife and forcing them to make a court appearance when our courts are too full as it is?


As a correctable violation, it shouldn't matter when they fixed it - before or after.
also, let me make clear that my parents have not fixed anything. they simply had the car smog checked because of this ticket to prove they are not driving a gross polluting car.

Paying $25 is a heck of a lot better than the hundreds they might otherwise have to pay.
again what doesn't feel right is why should they have to pay anything? the car is in good running condition, does not belch smoke, and passes a smog test. why pay $25, hundreds of dollars or one red cent when there is nothing wrong with the car? i'm not saying it is, but it gives the impression of a money grab. it feels like legalized robbery.

:mad:
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
Here you have encountered 2 officers who have lied.
Your bias is showing ...

1st) your officer who said you would get a fine demand
Huh? Of course you can get fined.

2nd) officers here who post that illegal aliens are legal in CA
Please show me the CA state law that says that being an illegal immigrant is a crime here in CA. I'll wait ...

Oh, wait! You cannot find it because it does not exist! Local and state law enforcement in CA cannot detain or arrest anyone solely for being undocumented. If we were to do so, we could be prosecuted and probably lose our jobs.

As for the OP's parents' situation, he has the options: Go to arraignment and show the proof of correction and be done with it (hopefully), or, plead not guilty at arraignment and go to trial and beat it there when either the state cannot show that the car was a gross polluter or that the matter has been corrected. One appearance might be preferable to two, but that depends on the price the parents put on their time.
 

davew128

Senior Member
Local and state law enforcement in CA cannot detain or arrest anyone solely for being undocumented. If we were to do so, we could be prosecuted and probably lose our jobs.
Sadly, he is correct. This is one of those rare instances where the people of Arizona stand tall over those in California.
 

Proserpina

Senior Member
Yes, well if I saw an illegal I would call the feds and let them take them away. Instead the cop who posts here just says "nothing I can do about it" and walks away and allows a person who illegally entered the country to stroll about and do whatever damage he wants to our nation.

Federal law must must not be applicable in CA .. that's the argument I saw.

Illegals in this country should be a #1 priority for any state or federal law enforcement officer; these people are over here because they are fleeing their own country. Thieves, killers, and all-around undesirables.

Arizona had it right on the spot .. most illegals have fled AZ. And the notion that a state officer cannot arrest is poppy****; understand the 9th amendment...and you'll know why the argument that one cannot arrest an illegal is poppy****.

Cite please.

:cool:
 
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