hells.saints
Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Michigan
First of all, I know really my stuff for a non-attorney, and so does the man in the narrative below. The following narrative is a fictional illustration of the circumstances of a real traffic stop, of which the defendant has not yet contacted the court yet for a hearing as of this posting.
THEREFORE, my questions are thus:
* Given this fictional scenario, would there be a violation of due process?
* Given this fictional scenario, could the city put points on a driving record for an alleged offense such as this?
* Given this fictional scenario, what would you suggest to the defendant?
I believe the answers are yes and no to the first two, respectively. But I would like your opinion(s).
First of all, I know really my stuff for a non-attorney, and so does the man in the narrative below. The following narrative is a fictional illustration of the circumstances of a real traffic stop, of which the defendant has not yet contacted the court yet for a hearing as of this posting.
Myself, and four other men and women leave a grocery store just after midnight on a dry, cold December evening. No adverse road conditions. As we are going down the driveway to the main road, we pass an oncoming city police officer, at a reasonable speed below the legal limit. No mechanical issues can be seen with the vehicle I am driving. Being one who is always wary of police officers (I've been held at gunpoint multiple times, cuffed, and all kinds of other crazy things, but have never been arrested or charged with a crime), I kept my eye on the officer's vehicle. He turned to leave the parking lot at the other drive, and I waited to see which direction he was leaving, so that I could go the opposite way. Common sense tells me not to go the same direction as a police officer in traffic. I was now approaching the main road, and he sat there, not turning. I chose a direction, and he turned the same direction and followed me from a distance.
I had traveled about a quarter mile (all at a reasonable speed below the speed limit), and the officer had now caught up to a safe following distance. He followed me for another half mile, before I realized I would have to change lanes to reach my destination. I did so, and communicated to the group that this was the test. I signaled, he followed, and I knew at this point that we were getting pulled over that night. I prepared my various lines, and told each passenger to shut their mouths and not stray from my instructions to them. We turned onto a new road, which is when he turned his lights on, and pulled us over.
He approached the vehicle, and we greeted each other though my one-inch crack in the window (I never take the chance that an officer could say he/she smelled something in the vehicle). He asked for my license, which I provided. I literally had no idea why we were stopped, so I asked why we had been stopped. He said that he couldn't even read my license plate once he had stopped me. Consider that in Michigan, the plates are three dimensional. He then asked for verbal identification from each passenger, to which some declined. He said he was looking from a possible runaway from a nearby town, but I knew he was probably checking for signs of intoxication and possible leads on outstanding warrants from a group of young people in a sedan at midnight. I politely asked if he was allowed to lie for the purposes of investigation, knowing that he possibly was. He said that he absolutely could. I then said that my attorney would get really angry with me if I answer any more questions, and that we probably should just decline to answer any further questions if he's investigating something other than a vehicle-related reason for a stop.
His tone changed. In my experience, you scar an officer's treatment of you the moment you invoke a fourth or fifth amendment right. He then abruptly asked for my proof of insurance and registration, which he had not bothered with so far in the stop. He then returned a citation a few minutes later. I wished him a happy new year, and we left. When we arrived at our destination, I checked the plate (mounted securely on the bumper) and it was muddy, but he had not made any changes to it to make it more "unobstructed" or "readable".
On the citation, in the middle section, it says that the charge is "Obstructed plate." In the comments section of the citation, he wrote "Unreadable plate". In the spot where he is required to fill in the actual law citation, it is blank. There is no law called either "Obstructed plate" or "Unreadable plate." I do not know if he cited a state law, or a local ordinance, or a county ordinance, or his dictatorial prerogative of being a police officer. I have no idea what I am to research to prepare a defense.
On the city's website, they list a charge called "Obstructed plate", which is a three-digit fine and two points on a driving record if found responsible/convicted.
I had traveled about a quarter mile (all at a reasonable speed below the speed limit), and the officer had now caught up to a safe following distance. He followed me for another half mile, before I realized I would have to change lanes to reach my destination. I did so, and communicated to the group that this was the test. I signaled, he followed, and I knew at this point that we were getting pulled over that night. I prepared my various lines, and told each passenger to shut their mouths and not stray from my instructions to them. We turned onto a new road, which is when he turned his lights on, and pulled us over.
He approached the vehicle, and we greeted each other though my one-inch crack in the window (I never take the chance that an officer could say he/she smelled something in the vehicle). He asked for my license, which I provided. I literally had no idea why we were stopped, so I asked why we had been stopped. He said that he couldn't even read my license plate once he had stopped me. Consider that in Michigan, the plates are three dimensional. He then asked for verbal identification from each passenger, to which some declined. He said he was looking from a possible runaway from a nearby town, but I knew he was probably checking for signs of intoxication and possible leads on outstanding warrants from a group of young people in a sedan at midnight. I politely asked if he was allowed to lie for the purposes of investigation, knowing that he possibly was. He said that he absolutely could. I then said that my attorney would get really angry with me if I answer any more questions, and that we probably should just decline to answer any further questions if he's investigating something other than a vehicle-related reason for a stop.
His tone changed. In my experience, you scar an officer's treatment of you the moment you invoke a fourth or fifth amendment right. He then abruptly asked for my proof of insurance and registration, which he had not bothered with so far in the stop. He then returned a citation a few minutes later. I wished him a happy new year, and we left. When we arrived at our destination, I checked the plate (mounted securely on the bumper) and it was muddy, but he had not made any changes to it to make it more "unobstructed" or "readable".
On the citation, in the middle section, it says that the charge is "Obstructed plate." In the comments section of the citation, he wrote "Unreadable plate". In the spot where he is required to fill in the actual law citation, it is blank. There is no law called either "Obstructed plate" or "Unreadable plate." I do not know if he cited a state law, or a local ordinance, or a county ordinance, or his dictatorial prerogative of being a police officer. I have no idea what I am to research to prepare a defense.
On the city's website, they list a charge called "Obstructed plate", which is a three-digit fine and two points on a driving record if found responsible/convicted.
THEREFORE, my questions are thus:
* Given this fictional scenario, would there be a violation of due process?
* Given this fictional scenario, could the city put points on a driving record for an alleged offense such as this?
* Given this fictional scenario, what would you suggest to the defendant?
I believe the answers are yes and no to the first two, respectively. But I would like your opinion(s).
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