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  1. #1
    joulzw is offline Junior Member
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    parking ticket near stop sign

    What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? NJ

    My fiance parked his car several feet BEHIND a "parking by permit only" sign. He has a permit. This is for residential parking. This sign is posted 31 feet from a stop sign (he would have been at least 35' from the stop sign). He was issued a ticket for parking within 50' of this stop sign. This parking sign was posted by the same police dept that issued the ticket. Doesn't this qualify as entrapment? The sign indicates that parking IS PERMITTED, but they are issuing tickets to people who have a permit to park by the sign. Is there anything he can do?
  2. #2
    Zigner is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by joulzw View Post
    What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? NJ

    My fiance parked his car several feet BEHIND a "parking by permit only" sign. He has a permit. This is for residential parking. This sign is posted 31 feet from a stop sign (he would have been at least 35' from the stop sign). He was issued a ticket for parking within 50' of this stop sign. This parking sign was posted by the same police dept that issued the ticket. Doesn't this qualify as entrapment? The sign indicates that parking IS PERMITTED, but they are issuing tickets to people who have a permit to park by the sign. Is there anything he can do?
    Nope - you can't park within 50' of the stop sign.
  3. #3
    racer72 is offline Senior Member
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    The police have nothing to do with the installation of signage. The Department of Transportation or other agency that deals with the road and highways of the area decide where to put up signs.
    If you feel my answer is rude, mean, snarky or in anyway not to your liking, I did my job. You don't need to tell me.

    No private messages, I do not reply to them.
  4. #4
    LSCAP is offline Member
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    Does anyone know what the actual law is about the distance from the stop sign?
  5. #5
    joulzw is offline Junior Member
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    Thank you for the responses. racer72, we looked into that. This police department DID post that sign.

    fyi, NJ law about entrapment:

    2C:2-12. Entrapment
    a. A public law enforcement official or a person engaged in cooperation with such an official or one acting as an agent of a public law enforcement official perpetrates an entrapment if for the purpose of obtaining evidence of the commission of an offense, he induces or encourages and, as a direct result, causes another person to engage in conduct constituting such offense by either:

    (1) Making knowingly false representations designed to induce the belief that such conduct is not prohibited; or

    (2) Employing methods of persuasion or inducement which create a substantial risk that such an offense will be committed by persons other than those who are ready to commit it.

    b. Except as provided in subsection c. of this section, a person prosecuted for an offense shall be acquitted if he proves by a preponderance of evidence that his conduct occurred in response to an entrapment. The issue of entrapment shall be tried by the trier of fact.

    c. The defense afforded by this section is unavailable when causing or threatening bodily injury is an element of the offense charged and the prosecution is based on conduct causing or threatening such injury to a person other than the person perpetrating the entrapment.

    L.1978, c. 95, s. 2C:2-12, eff. Sept. 1, 1979. Amended by L.1979, c. 178, s. 9, eff. Sept. 1, 1979.
  6. #6
    Zigner is offline Senior Member
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    FYI - yours is not a case of entrapment. You can't park within 50' of a stop-sign.


    N.J.S.A. 39:4-138 - Places where parking prohibited; exceptions; moving vehicle not under one's control into prohibited area.

    Except when necessary to avoid conflict with other traffic or in compliance with the directions of a traffic or police officer or traffic sign or signal, no operator of a vehicle shall stand or park the vehicle in any of the following places:

    * Within an intersection;
    * On a crosswalk;
    * Between a safety zone and the adjacent curb or within at least 20 feet of a point on the curb immediately opposite the end of a safety zone;
    * In front of a public or private driveway;
    * Within 25 feet of the nearest crosswalk or side line of a street or intersecting highway, except at alleys;
    * On a sidewalk;
    * In any appropriately marked "No Parking" space established pursuant to the duly promulgated regulations of the Commissioner of Transportation;
    * Within 50 feet of a "stop" sign;
    * Within 10 feet of a fire hydrant;
    * Within 50 feet of the nearest rail of a railroad crossing;
    * Within 20 feet of the driveway entrance to any fire station and on the side of a street opposite the entrance to any fire station within 75 feet of said entrance, when properly signposted;
    * Alongside or opposite any street excavation or obstruction when stopping, standing, or parking would obstruct traffic, when properly signposted;
    * On the roadway side of any vehicle stopped or parked at the edge or curb of a street;
    * Upon any bridge or other elevated structure upon a highway, or within a highway tunnel or underpass, or on the immediate approaches thereto except where space for parking is provided;
    * In any space on public or private property appropriately marked for vehicles for the physically handicapped pursuant to P.L.1977, c.202 (C.39:4-197.5), P.L.1975, c.217 (C.52:27D-119 et seq.) or any other applicable law unless the vehicle is authorized by law to be parked therein and a handicapped person is either the driver or a passenger in that vehicle. State, county or municipal law enforcement officers or parking enforcement authority officers shall enforce the parking restrictions on spaces appropriately marked for vehicles for the physically handicapped on both public and private property.

    No person shall move a vehicle not lawfully under his control into any such prohibited area or away from a curb such distance as is unlawful.

    Amended 1948,c.342,s.2; 1951,c.23,s.77; 1981,c.20,s.1; 1989,c.201,s.1.
  7. #7
    Alex23 is offline Member
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    We don't have that restriction here in CA. Shouldn't the area be painted red to indicate no parking? Is everyone expected to pace out their parking spaces to be sure that they aren't within 50' of a sign?
  8. #8
    Zigner is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex23 View Post
    We don't have that restriction here in CA. Shouldn't the area be painted red to indicate no parking? Is everyone expected to pace out their parking spaces to be sure that they aren't within 50' of a sign?
    Well, let's apply a different restriction that is in the same spirit here in CA:

    We are not allowed to park within 15' of a fire hydrant. Not every fire hydrant has a red curb in front of it...

    Similar situation in CA for parking too close to an intersection (I don't have the exact number of feet off the top of my head).
  9. #9
    joulzw is offline Junior Member
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    Zigner, thanks for the info. I see that the latest amendment date on that law is 1989, presumably the sign was posted after that law was in place. We know for sure that the police are responsible for placing that sign ("parking by permit only"). Is this negligence? There is someone parked next to the sign (and within 50' of the stop sign) EVERY DAY (it is not easy to park around there). He is going to complain about the placement of the parking sign and ask to have it moved and the charges dropped. I'm sure he'll end up paying the fine, but the least we can do is demand that the sign be moved so that the cops stop preying on residents like that.
  10. #10
    Zigner is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by joulzw View Post
    Zigner, thanks for the info. I see that the latest amendment date on that law is 1989, presumably the sign was posted after that law was in place. We know for sure that the police are responsible for placing that sign ("parking by permit only"). Is this negligence? There is someone parked next to the sign (and within 50' of the stop sign) EVERY DAY (it is not easy to park around there). He is going to complain about the placement of the parking sign and ask to have it moved and the charges dropped. I'm sure he'll end up paying the fine, but the least we can do is demand that the sign be moved so that the cops stop preying on residents like that.
    Nobody is "preying" on anybody. The permit sign says that you can park there with a permit providing you obey all other laws. Granted, the italicized portion isn't on the sign, but it's common knowledge. For example, if you had parked in front of a fire hydrant and been cited for that, would you argue that the sign over-rode the law against parking in front of a fire hydrant? Of course you wouldn't.
  11. #11
    LSCAP is offline Member
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    I think the OP is right about the sign being misleading.

    Donít they normally post the sign saying you can park here, either with an arrow, or with another sign at the end of the zone, saying you canít park here.

    You know, like first a sign with an arrow pointing to the other sign with an arrow.

    If not it would be fair to ASSUME that a sign saying you can park here means just that.

    Or looked at another way, Iíve never seen a sign saying parking allowed, posted right next to or behind a fire hydrant.

    Perhaps a call to some city official, especially one running for reelection, might help. Or at least get the sign moved.
  12. #12
    LSCAP is offline Member
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    And as suggestive as the sign is,

    Look again at the first line of the law..


    Except when necessary to avoid conflict with other traffic or in compliance with the directions of a traffic or police officer or traffic sign or signal, no operator of a vehicle shall stand or park the vehicle in any of the following places:

    Talk about vague!

    And I went crazy trying to find the law. Darn google kept giving me advertisements and section that only told how to pay the fine. Oh Well.
  13. #13
    Zigner is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by LSCAP View Post
    And as suggestive as the sign is,

    Look again at the first line of the law..


    Except when necessary to avoid conflict with other traffic or in compliance with the directions of a traffic or police officer or traffic sign or signal, no operator of a vehicle shall stand or park the vehicle in any of the following places:

    Talk about vague!

    And I went crazy trying to find the law. Darn google kept giving me advertisements and section that only told how to pay the fine. Oh Well.
    Actually, this isn't a matter of "complying" with the permit sign - the permit sign was not saying he HAD to park there.

    ETA: The sign was adding an additional restriction. It was NOT removing other restrictions.
    Last edited by Zigner; 08-06-2009 at 06:04 PM.
  14. #14
    joulzw is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks, LSCAP for pointing out that first line. Zigner, I agree most drivers would likely not park in an area where a sign obviously conflicts with other laws (such as in front of a fire hydrant). In this case, it's not so obvious. We assumed the sign was 50' from the stop sign and didn't know it was only 31' until we measured it! 50 feet is not so easy to eyeball (unless it's something you happen to do every day). He was off by approximately one car-length. We'll see what happens. This has been a helpful discussion.
  15. #15
    Zigner is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by joulzw View Post
    Thanks, LSCAP for pointing out that first line. Zigner, I agree most drivers would likely not park in an area where a sign obviously conflicts with other laws (such as in front of a fire hydrant). In this case, it's not so obvious. We assumed the sign was 50' from the stop sign and didn't know it was only 31' until we measured it! 50 feet is not so easy to eyeball (unless it's something you happen to do every day). He was off by approximately one car-length. We'll see what happens. This has been a helpful discussion.
    The first line of the law is there so that you aren't violating the law when you have to stop at a stop sign or a stop light (etc). It has nothing to do with this situation.

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