• FreeAdvice has a new Terms of Service and Privacy Policy, effective May 25, 2018.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our Terms of Service and use of cookies.

PD Jurisdiction in Private Parking Lots?

Accident - Bankruptcy - Criminal Law / DUI - Business - Consumer - Employment - Family - Immigration - Real Estate - Tax - Traffic - Wills   Please click a topic or scroll down for more.

gechic

Junior Member
I reciently backed into another vehicle in a private parking lot of a retail store. The police were notified and arrived to make a report. I exchanged information with the owner of the other vehicle. I happened to not have my license on me (had left it in a jacket pocket the night before). I was given a ticket for no drivers license (which isn't a huge deal since it should be dropped if I show my license in court), and another ticket for "backing up not in safety".

When I told my insurance agent, she was shocked that I had been written a ticket. She told me that she didn't think that the Houston Police Department had any jurisdiction in private parking lots and that unless there were injuries, they were not even supposed to respond the these types of calls. I've read other incidents (from other states) where a person was hit by an illegal immigrant with no license or insurance and the police would do nothing since it was on private property.

So, my questions are:
1) Was the officer out of her jurisdiction when she wrote the ticket for the violation?
2) What steps to I take to get the ticket thrown out? Do I need a lawyer?
(By the way, this is NOT a request for a thousand e-mails from laywers and their cost to defend me. Just looking for some clarification, really.)

Thanks!
 


seniorjudge

Senior Member
What statute number (or ordinance number) were you charged under?

You can (despite what your insurance agent thinks) be charged with bad driving on private property.
 

poncho

Member
Not really legal. You need to check yourself or get a lawyer. In Washington State, Police can do an accident report on private property open for public access, i.e: mall parking lot. The Police however cannot give tickets on private property. Unless its private residential and the home owners association votes and it passes.

You did not mention your state. Washington is a state that does nothing infraction wise in shopping mall parking lots.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
Poncho,

This occurred in Houston, TX, not in the state of Washington. These sorts of jurisdictional issues vary by state. In my state we could not have given a ticket for the bad driving, but we could have given one for no license in possession. TX may have a statute covering this, or, the property may be subject to enforcement by contract, by ordinance, or by some other means not known or understood by those of us in other states where this is not permitted.

- Carl
 

seniorjudge

Senior Member
Not really legal. You need to check yourself or get a lawyer. In Washington State, Police can do an accident report on private property open for public access, i.e: mall parking lot. The Police however cannot give tickets on private property. Unless its private residential and the home owners association votes and it passes.

You did not mention your state. Washington is a state that does nothing infraction wise in shopping mall parking lots.

Cisco, please indicate on each of your posts that you have no idea what you are talking about and that you are making wild guesses.

Thanks1
 

poncho

Member
Cisco, please indicate on each of your posts that you have no idea what you are talking about and that you are making wild guesses.

Thanks1
I also said check on your own or hire an attorney to see if it applies in your state.

OP did mention
I've read other incidents (from other states) where a person was hit by an illegal immigrant with no license or insurance and the police would do nothing since it was on private property.
Pointing out that Washington State is one of those other states.
 

gechic

Junior Member
Carl, poncho, or new reader:

How would I go about finding out if this is covered in a statute, property contract, etc? There is not a statute or ordinance number written on the ticket. Could I just call up the police station and ask? Rumor has it that police are not even supposed to respond to parking lot incidents unless there are injuries, but I don't know how to actually verify that.


And, seniorjudge,

You have over 28,000 posts on this website, and everyone that I've seen is rude and offers no real advice. Do you really have nothing better to do with your time?
 
Last edited:

You Are Guilty

Senior Member
And, seniorjudge,

You have over 28,000 posts on this website, and everyone that I've seen is rude and offers no real advice. Do you really have nothing better to do with your time?
A little bit of "free advice" - antagonizing the volunteers who post here is not a good way to encourage others to help you. If you don't like what someone has to say, ignoring it is always a good idea.
 

seniorjudge

Senior Member
Question:

Carl, poncho, or new reader:

How would I go about finding out if this is covered in a statute, property contract, etc?
There is not a statute or ordinance number written on the ticket. Could I just call up the police station and ask? Rumor has it that police are not even supposed to respond to parking lot incidents unless there are injuries, but I don't know how to actually verify that.


And, seniorjudge,

You have over 28,000 posts on this website, and everyone that I've seen is rude and offers no real advice. Do you really have nothing better to do with your time?
Answer:

What statute number (or ordinance number) were you charged under?

You can (despite what your insurance agent thinks) be charged with bad driving on private property.
 

Silverplum

Senior Member
A little bit of "free advice" - antagonizing the volunteers who post here is not a good way to encourage others to help you. If you don't like what someone has to say, ignoring it is always a good idea.
Especially when Senior Judge was merely trying to spare the poster from Poncho's always-wrong "advice."

But hey, poster, you go ahead and do whatever Poncho tells ya. :rolleyes:
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
Carl, poncho, or new reader:

How would I go about finding out if this is covered in a statute, property contract, etc? There is not a statute or ordinance number written on the ticket. Could I just call up the police station and ask? Rumor has it that police are not even supposed to respond to parking lot incidents unless there are injuries, but I don't know how to actually verify that.
Since there are numerous sections that might allow them to do this, you might consider a call to the Houston PD's traffic enforcement division (or whatever office handles traffic issues), and, perhaps, a call to an attorney. Just ask the general question.


- Carl
 

seniorjudge

Senior Member
Since there are numerous sections that might allow them to do this, you might consider a call to the Houston PD's traffic enforcement division (or whatever office handles traffic issues), and, perhaps, a call to an attorney. Just ask the general question.


- Carl
Carl, this poster does not appreciate accurate advice.

Don't waste your time.
 

poncho

Member
Especially when Senior Judge was merely trying to spare the poster from Poncho's always-wrong "advice."

But hey, poster, you go ahead and do whatever Poncho tells ya. :rolleyes:
Again OP herd that in other states Police cannot give tickets on private property. My advice was to check their states statutes and also contact a lawyer.

OP wrote:

When I told my insurance agent, she was shocked that I had been written a ticket. She told me that she didn't think that the Houston Police Department had any jurisdiction in private parking lots and that unless there were injuries, they were not even supposed to respond the these types of calls. I've read other incidents (from other states) where a person was hit by an illegal immigrant with no license or insurance and the police would do nothing since it was on private property.
Merely pointed out that Police do not have jurisdiction to enforce traffic infractions in private parking in Washington State. Op insurance agent also believes this the case. Its easy to find out.


Revised Code Of Washington provides that:
RCW 46.61.419
Private roads — Speed enforcement.

State, local, or county law enforcement personnel may enforce speeding violations under RCW 46.61.400 on private roads within a community organized under chapter 64.38 RCW if:

(1) A majority of the homeowner's association's board of directors votes to authorize the issuance of speeding infractions on its private roads, and declares a speed limit not lower than twenty miles per hour;

(2) A written agreement regarding the speeding enforcement is signed by the homeowner's association president and the chief law enforcement official of the city or county within whose jurisdiction the private road is located;

(3) The homeowner's association has provided written notice to all of the homeowners describing the new authority to issue speeding infractions; and

(4) Signs have been posted declaring the speed limit at all vehicle entrances to the community.


[2003 c 193 § 1.]
Wa Supreme Court has held: Traffic stops are invalid when they occur on private property when the officer is enforcing the vehicle code for the basis of the stop, even open to public access. i.e: a shopping mall parking lot private property.


Police officers are trained to believe they are doing the right thing when enforcing unconstitutional and laws that don't really apply to the circumstance. As long as the local state or city calls it a law, The people who break these laws are considered criminals in the eyes of police and general public who watch to much television.

What is perfectly responsible and legal behavior today will be called irresponsible and illegal next month. I just wish that more police officer's understood that it is ALL based on revenue. It has nothing to do with making America safer and crime free under most states motor vehicle code.
 
Last edited:

poncho

Member
All though not a legal argument. WA new driver handbook suggests practicing driving maneuvers including skid recovery in clear (empty) mall parking lots when they are closed for business. See if Texas offers simular advice. If it does, then its a safer bet to ask the police department if they enforce vehicle code in mall parking lots. If No.

Next step would be finding appellate court decisions on police stops based on enforcing the vehicle code. i.e: a drunk driver got off Scott free because the Police used committing a infraction of the motor vehicle as the basis for the stop and it occurred on mall property.

Best option find a traffic lawyer who gives a free consultation. Who all ready has the knowledge how to argue this in your favor in "court".
 
Last edited:

Find the Right Lawyer for Your Legal Issue!

Fast, Free, and Confidential
data-ad-format="auto">
Top