Pittsburgh Parking Court redress

[epekkle]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Pittsburgh, PA

I received a parking ticket for not having a valid residential parking permit about two weeks ago. However, this ticket is clearly wrong since I was parked on the side of the street with meters and signs posted for 4 hour parking. My suspicion is that since I was parked at a spot with a headless meter, the parking cop decided I needed to get a ticket of some kind, and the other side of the street is properly signed for residential parking. I figured this was a relatively simple case of going to parking court, explaining where I was parked and that the ticket was clearly in error (with pictures), and the ticket would be dismissed. Much to my surprise, the judge greeted my claim with "if you were parked at a headless meter you wouldn't have gotten a ticket" and proceeded to lecture me about residential parking in Pittsburgh. Now, I understand some skepticism on his part and I guess this is my word against the parking cop's. However, when I asked "how can I prove that I was parked where I say I was if the photos are insufficient" the reply I received was completely beyond the pale: he retorted "I don't know, that's for you to figure out." I was left speechless. And with that, my appeal was denied.

I have two questions from this incident:

1) If photo evidence is insufficient, how can I possibly prove that the ticket was bogus?
2) Is there any effectual way to complain about this judge? I don't mind being told "you're wrong" or "you misunderstood the law" but I felt my treatment was entirely unjust.

As a postscript, I inquired with the receptionist as to how I could appeal this ruling, and was given a form that included a fee (almost $40) larger than the fine I was contesting (I know, a $35 fine is small peanuts, but it's the principal of the thing...). Furthermore, the hearing on the appeal wouldn't be for another month or so, when I may possibly no longer reside in Pittsburgh. Considering the logic of this judge, there's no guaranteeing the next judge wouldn't be similar and I can't really come up with a better defense - so I just paid the fine, which I'm steamed about. I asked the receptionist how I could lodge a complaint, and I was told to call the Parking Authority, and they'd give me an address to which I would have to mail a letter. Clearly, I have a sneaking suspicion as to what good a letter will do - that is, not one iota.

I'll probably just have to suck this one up and move on, but if there are any suggestions for course of redress, I'd be happy to hear them.

Thanks!

[JKBee]

A call to the police chief might be in order. They hate to get them and usually will try to brush it off, but then just write a letter. If you are really committed, go to a town council meeting where you will get a chance to speak. Make sure you are very concise and have the matter related in a couple of minutes or less. And if this isn't enough, you have a local paper where letters to the editor are usually published. You might get a chance to at least feel better after taking some sort of action.

[HighwayMan]

The location of offense on the ticket should be all that's required. I fail to see how you can't win this.

[HighwayMan]

Originally Posted by JKBee

A call to the police chief might be in order. They hate to get them and usually will try to brush it off, but then just write a letter. If you are really committed, go to a town council meeting where you will get a chance to speak. Make sure you are very concise and have the matter related in a couple of minutes or less. And if this isn't enough, you have a local paper where letters to the editor are usually published. You might get a chance to at least feel better after taking some sort of action.

Somehow I don't see the chief of a major metropolitan police department caring very much about an individual parking ticket that his agency may not have even issued.

You'd have a better chance of going through one of your local TV news stations that have a "help me" reporter.

[epekkle]

Originally Posted by HighwayMan

The location of offense on the ticket should be all that's required. I fail to see how you can't win this.

The ticket only has the block, not which side of the street. And since one side of the street is restricted for residential parking, it is not obviously wrong.

That aside, I would have the same problem if the ticket stated I was two blocks away from where I actually parked. The judge appears to have totally dismissed my claim that the parking cop was in error. He seemed to not even consider that this could possibly be the case. I don't know how to fight this when my defense is "I was not parked where the ticket says I was" and the judge says something to the effect of "not according to the officer, they have to swear to the ticket too, you know" (smarmy tone included). Facing this kind of logic, how could I possibly muster any defense against any parking ticket I receive?

[Zigner]

Originally Posted by epekkle

The ticket only has the block, not which side of the street. And since one side of the street is restricted for residential parking, it is not obviously wrong.

That aside, I would have the same problem if the ticket stated I was two blocks away from where I actually parked. The judge appears to have totally dismissed my claim that the parking cop was in error. He seemed to not even consider that this could possibly be the case. I don't know how to fight this when my defense is "I was not parked where the ticket says I was" and the judge says something to the effect of "not according to the officer, they have to swear to the ticket too, you know" (smarmy tone included). Facing this kind of logic, how could I possibly muster any defense against any parking ticket I receive?

You've run in to a problem. You have no evidence what-so-ever that you were legally parked. The only witness you have is person who has an absolute interest to have this ticket overturned (namely, you).

On the other hand, the evidence that they have against you is the unbiased testimony of an officer who has no interest in this what-so-ever.


Who would YOU believe if you were making a judgment on this?

[epekkle]

Originally Posted by HighwayMan

Somehow I don't see the chief of a major metropolitan police department caring very much about an individual parking ticket that his agency may not have even issued.

In Pittsburgh the Parking Authority is completely separate from the Police Department. From what I gather (I've never been issued a ticket from a real cop), when the police write you a parking ticket, it looks different and you have to go to a different court to fight it.

Originally Posted by HighwayMan

You'd have a better chance of going through one of your local TV news stations that have a "help me" reporter.

All of the segments I've seen from this kind of reporting appear to have much more dire circumstances than someone who feels wronged by a judge/parking cop over a $35 parking ticket. Do you think they would be willing to help me fight this?

[epekkle]

Originally Posted by Zigner

You've run in to a problem. You have no evidence what-so-ever that you were legally parked. The only witness you have is person who has an absolute interest to have this ticket overturned (namely, you).

On the other hand, the evidence that they have against you is the unbiased testimony of an officer who has no interest in this what-so-ever.


Who would YOU believe if you were making a judgment on this?

I understand this is how it appears. Thus my first question, is there any way to prove my claim? Obviously photos aren't good enough since I could have moved my car and then taken the photo. And if the answer is "there's no way" then what stops the parking cop from issuing tickets at will? I mean, this ticket was completely wrong. Are you telling me there's no way for me to fight it?

And as for the "unbiased testimony of an officer who has no interest" - I'm just speculating here, but perhaps the Parking Authority gives them quotas on parking tickets? (I'll point out that this wasn't a police officer, but a "parking enforcement officer" whose sole job it is to issue parking tickets.) If that's the case, then this whole thing becomes even more nefarious. Again, just speculation.

[epekkle]

The "he said, she said" arguments aside, I would be less annoyed if the judge had simply said something to the effect of "I'm not convinced of your claim" and answered my question of "how can I prove my claim" with something reasonable. Instead, I was all but called a liar, and then subjected to a lecture.

[IsabellaSoriano]

Originally Posted by epekkle

I understand this is how it appears. Thus my first question, is there any way to prove my claim? Obviously photos aren't good enough since I could have moved my car and then taken the photo. And if the answer is "there's no way" then what stops the parking cop from issuing tickets at will? I mean, this ticket was completely wrong. Are you telling me there's no way for me to fight it?

And as for the "unbiased testimony of an officer who has no interest" - I'm just speculating here, but perhaps the Parking Authority gives them quotas on parking tickets? (I'll point out that this wasn't a police officer, but a "parking enforcement officer" whose sole job it is to issue parking tickets.) If that's the case, then this whole thing becomes even more nefarious. Again, just speculation.

here's the thing. are you going to investigate if a quota is actually required? subpeona employee policies, employment records? and what if the ticketing officer had met his/her quota by 10x for that month by the time he/she issued you the ticket? there goes your argument.

personally, i own a few streets in CA with all the parking tickets i've paid. now, i won't park anywhere with a non working or headless meter.

[epekkle]

Originally Posted by IsabellaSoriano

here's the thing. are you going to investigate if a quota is actually required? subpeona employee policies, employment records? and what if the ticketing officer had met his/her quota by 10x for that month by the time he/she issued you the ticket? there goes your argument.

No, I'm not going to go through all that trouble. I was just speculating on something that could make the parking cop not "unbiased". He/she could just be overzealous for all I know. One thing I am sure of - the ticket was wrong.

Originally Posted by IsabellaSoriano

personally, i own a few streets in CA with all the parking tickets i've paid. now, i won't park anywhere with a non working or headless meter.

That sucks. I've stopped parking at these spots since I got this ticket, especially since I walk by the place where I got the ticket in question all the time and I see the parking cop continuing to issue tickets to cars here. I've wanted to stop and talk to the woman, but I figured this is a bad idea and never done so.

[Zigner]

Re Quotas:

C'mon - do you really think that the parking folks can't find enough cars parked illegally?

[Zigner]

Originally Posted by epekkle

I've wanted to stop and talk to the woman, but I figured this is a bad idea and never done so.

Actually, this might be a good idea. There's really no down-side if you do it in a courteous and respectful way. Of course, be very friendly and not accusatory. Just "chat" about it...can't hurt.

[epekkle]

Originally Posted by Zigner

Re Quotas:

C'mon - do you really think that the parking folks can't find enough cars parked illegally?

That's probably true. But whatever the circumstances behind the parking cop's decision to give me a ticket, the fact remains that the ticket was wrong. I'm just trying to find out if there's any way to prove this to a hostile judge.

[Zigner]

Originally Posted by epekkle

That's probably true. But whatever the circumstances behind the parking cop's decision to give me a ticket, the fact remains that the ticket was wrong. I'm just trying to find out if there's any way to prove this to a hostile judge.

Sure - produce evidence that shows your car was legally parked. This *could* include testimony from a witness who is NOT biased. Of course, the evidence would have to be more compelling than the evidence against you.


I mean, really...you don't seem to be getting it.