• FreeAdvice has a new Terms of Service and Privacy Policy, effective May 25, 2018.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our Terms of Service and use of cookies.

Request to change location of court appearance

Accident - Bankruptcy - Criminal Law / DUI - Business - Consumer - Employment - Family - Immigration - Real Estate - Tax - Traffic - Wills   Please click a topic or scroll down for more.

SIN EATER

Member
IMHO, Judges won't change venue because of the time lost when LEO are traveling outside their normal area (waste of public $, and may prevent them from testifying on other tickets in their venue that day), and ...
cities get a cut of the $ from tickets issued and collected in their area.
 


CdwJava

Senior Member
IMHO, Judges won't change venue because of the time lost when LEO are traveling outside their normal area (waste of public $, and may prevent them from testifying on other tickets in their venue that day), and ...
cities get a cut of the $ from tickets issued and collected in their area.
I suspect that the local court may just have a policy against changing it. Some agencies in larger counties get miffed when the hearing is moved because they have to then pay more money for the officer to travel further. And, you make a good point! The officer may be required to be in court that day in his local area for other citations, yet now he'd be stuck in some distant location for one citation while three or four others he wrote the same week or two might be dismissed because he can't be at the other court.

Oh, as for the money, the agency already loses when the officer has to go to court. They only see a positive general fund impact when the officer does not have to go to court, and even then is is less than a sawbuck for most violations.

- Carl
 
Slybone,

Apparently from your posts, your notice to appear lists the court at 8950 Clairemont Mesa Blvd., correct? If so, this is the county seat court so you can't change to another court and that's why you were denied. If you were not listed to appear at Clairemont Mesa Blvd. then you have a right to have it transferred there.

The rules are this: If you work or live closer to the county seat court than to the courthouse which is listed on your notice to appear (and that is not a county seat courthouse), they must transfer your case to a court within the county seat (in this case the City of San Diego) IF the following applies:

1. You made a timely request of the officer at the time he wrote the ticket.

and

2. You were denied and make a motion for change of venue to the county seat at your arraignment.

If you have already been arraigned (plead not-guilty, paid bail, etc.) then you likely have given up your right to have the venue moved.

Having your case moved to the county seat is not optional as long as you follow all the proper procedures, they must do it if you request it. If they don't, you probably have grounds for appeal if you fight your ticket and lose.

If changing the court is not an option for you, all is not lost. There is some excellent information here:



and here:

[url=http://www.highwayrobbery.net[/url]


Good luck!
 
Last edited by a moderator:

CdwJava

Senior Member
Having your case moved to the county seat is not optional as long as you follow all the proper procedures, they must do it if you request it. If they don't, you probably have grounds for appeal if you fight your ticket and lose.
You wouldn't have a source for that tidbit, would you? The CVC only indicates that the change be made upon request at the time of citation, not that there is any "right" to do this at a later time - before arraignment or not. Certainly they MAY allow a change of venue, but I don't see anything that requires they do so after the citation is issued.

- Carl
 
You wouldn't have a source for that tidbit, would you?
Carl – Do I detect a note of snarkyness in your question?

The CVC only indicates that the change be made upon request at the time of citation, not that there is any "right" to do this at a later time - before arraignment or not. Certainly they MAY allow a change of venue, but I don't see anything that requires they do so after the citation is issued.

CVC section 40502(b) states:

40502. The place specified in the notice to appear shall be any of the following:
(b) Upon demand of the person arrested, before a judge or other magistrate having jurisdiction of the offense at the county seat of the county in which the offense is alleged to have been committed. This subdivision applies only if the person arrested resides, or the person's principal place of employment is located, closer to the county seat than to the court or other magistrate nearest or most accessible to the place where the arrest is made.

This sets up the requirement that if the person arrested* either lives or works closer to the county seat, the officer must designate the county seat court as the place to appear if demanded by the person arrested. In other words, the court at the county seat is the court that has jurisdiction. But what if the officer does not designate the county seat court as the place to appear, does this then make it optional? Certainly not, for if it was optional, there would have been no point in the Legislature making it mandatory on the officer because the officer could then just ignore the demand and the defendant would have no remedy at law.

So we now look to the Penal code to tell us what to do in the situation where the officer fails to designate the proper court on the notice to appear. The next opportunity for the defendant to address this is at arraignment (in the court that was incorrectly designated).

Section 1462.2 of the Penal Code states that when the action is commenced in a court other than the proper court for trial, it may nevertheless be tried there, “unless the defendant, at the time he pleads, (at arraignment) requests an order transferring the action or proceeding to the proper court.” It continues, “If after such request it appears that the action or proceeding was not commenced in the proper court, the court shall order the action or proceeding transferred to the proper court.” In the situation we are discussing, the “proper court” is the court at the county seat.

Transfer to the county seat court is therefore not optional. The court must transfer the case to the county seat if, at arraignment, the defendant requests such an order and the court determines that (1)he demanded the county seat at the time he received the citation, (2)he lives or works closer to the county seat, and (3)the officer failed to designate the county seat court as the place to appear.

But you don’t have to take my word for it. In Smith v. Municipal Court [(1959) 167 Cal.App.2d 534, 538], the court held that the Vehicle Code required that “f a demand therefore is made by the arrestee, the officer must specify as the place of appearance a municipal court within the judicial district at the county seat…” and further held the respondent court “was without discretion to deny the motion to transfer…” Note that this case was decided in 1959 and still holds precidence.

For clarification, I’ll also note that the court does not have to hear and grant this motion at the arraignment (although it may do so, especially if none of the facts are in dispute). The defendant must make the motion at arraignment and the court may set a separate date to hear the motion. However, as stated in Smith, the court is without discretion to deny the move to the county seat.

As for a denial of transfer being grounds for appeal, I won’t cite the case law on this, but it should be clear that if a court without jurisdiction tries and convicts a defendant, that verdict is likely to be overturned on appeal.

Remember, the law is more than just the codes, case law is important to note as well.

Hope this clarifies things.

----------
One other point of clarification for those reading along - The officer or the court can send the ticket to any court in the county seat, not necessarily the one closest to the defendant’s place of work or residence. Any (municipal) court in the county seat would have jurisdiction. Therefore, if you are cited to appear in any court in the county seat (some, like Los Angeles, have more than one), you have no statutory right to have it transferred elsewhere, even if another court in the (same) county seat is closer to your place of work or residence. Remember also, that all the courts we are discussing here are courts within the county in which the offense allegedly took place. You don’t get to transfer to a different county.


OK, one more point – What do you do if you make the request of the officer to set the place of appearance as the county seat and he refuses? A number of sources recommend that you sign the promise to appear, but add the notation, “County seat requested and refused” in small capital letters next to your name. That way, you’ll have indisputable proof on the citation that you made the demand. You could also refuse to sign until the officer gets the location correct, but you risk arrest for refusing to sign the ticket. Whatever you decide, always remain polite and non-confrontational. Being rude won’t get you anywhere (other than the pokey) and the officer is probably just unclear about the county seat court requirement, not just trying to be a jerk.



*For those reading this who might be unfamiliar with this phrase, “arrested” in the case of an infraction does not necessarily mean that you are taken into custody. Being given a citation by a police officer constitutes “arrest” for the purposes of the law even though you are just given the citation, sign it as a promise to appear and are released.
 
Last edited:

CdwJava

Senior Member
Carl – Do I detect a note of snarkyness in your question?
Just curious where you get the idea that the court HAS to change venue.

CVC section 40502(b) states:

40502. The place specified in the notice to appear shall be any of the following:
Sure does ... "in the NOTICE TO APPEAR". The "notice to appear" is the citation issued by the officer in the field, it's not the paperwork provided by the court.

See CVC 40500 et al for information on the form and issuing of citations and you will see they are issued by law enforcement.

So, you see, your 40502(b) argument comes to a screeching halt.

But you don’t have to take my word for it. In Smith v. Municipal Court [(1959) 167 Cal.App.2d 534, 538], the court held that the Vehicle Code required that “f a demand therefore is made by the arrestee, the officer must specify as the place of appearance a municipal court within the judicial district at the county seat…” and further held the respondent court “was without discretion to deny the motion to transfer…” Note that this case was decided in 1959 and still holds precidence.

You are missing the key words here: "if a demand therefore is made by the arrestee the officer must specify as the place of appearance a municipal court within the judicial district at the county seat" ... that is not the case here.

One other point of clarification for those reading along - The officer or the court can send the ticket to any court in the county seat, not necessarily the one closest to the defendant’s place of work or residence.
With the exception MAYBE of Los Angeles, I doubt there is more than one traffic court in any jurisdiction in the state. In the state's second larges city, San Diego, there is only one such court in the county seat. Not sure how many there are in Los Angeles.

OK, one more point – What do you do if you make the request of the officer to set the place of appearance as the county seat and he refuses?
If the OFFICER refuses to make the change, then the scenario you outlined can apply. However, that is not what happened here. Incidentally, in my 18 years at this job I have only had this asked of me ... once? I had to have dispatch give me the information and it delayed the stop for about 20 minutes because no one knew the information.

A number of sources recommend that you sign the promise to appear, but add the notation, “County seat requested and refused” in small capital letters next to your name. That way, you’ll have indisputable proof on the citation that you made the demand.
Not necessarily. Writing that does not mean that you made the request, it just means you wrote that on the citation. However, the officer would hopefully check the signature and find that little addition and address it if that was the issue.

You could also refuse to sign until the officer gets the location correct, but you risk arrest for refusing to sign the ticket.
Yep.


- Carl
 
Just curious where you get the idea that the court HAS to change venue.
I get that idea based on the CVC, the CPC, and the case law. And it’s not “an idea”, it is based on legal precedent which I explained at length in my previous post.

So, you see, your 40502(b) argument comes to a screeching halt.
I have no idea what you are trying to assert here.


You are missing the key words here: "if a demand therefore is made by the arrestee the officer must specify as the place of appearance a municipal court within the judicial district at the county seat" ... that is not the case here.
I’m not missing any key words. I wasn’t making the argument that my lengthy explanation applies to the OP’s case, I was responding to your question as to the legal basis of my statement that the court must transfer to the county seat in cases where (1) the arrestee demanded the county seat at the time he received the citation, (2)he lives or works closer to the county seat, (3)the officer failed to designate the county seat court as the place to appear and (4)the defendant makes a motion to change to the county seat at arraignment. If such a situation exists, the court must move the case to county seat. Are you still disagreeing with me about this?


With the exception MAYBE of Los Angeles, I doubt there is more than one traffic court in any jurisdiction in the state. In the state's second larges city, San Diego, there is only one such court in the county seat. Not sure how many there are in Los Angeles.
For clarification, I think you mean to say that you doubt there is more than one traffic court in any county seat. No? And yes, there are a number of courts in the city of Los Angeles (the county seat of Los Angeles County) that hear traffic cases so they all qualify as county seat traffic courts.


Incidentally, in my 18 years at this job I have only had this asked of me ... once? I had to have dispatch give me the information and it delayed the stop for about 20 minutes because no one knew the information.
Yes, most people don’t know their legal rights and even the police officers are often not fully informed on this point. My hope is that those that read this forum will be better educated for having followed along.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
I get that idea based on the CVC, the CPC, and the case law. And it’s not “an idea”, it is based on legal precedent which I explained at length in my previous post.
CVC 40502(b) addresses ONLY the issuance of the notice to appear in the filed. it does NOT address a request for a change of venue to the county seat AFTER that time. There may be some other requirement, but it ain't 40502.

I was responding to your question as to the legal basis of my statement that the court must transfer to the county seat in cases where (1) the arrestee demanded the county seat at the time he received the citation, (2)he lives or works closer to the county seat, (3)the officer failed to designate the county seat court as the place to appear and (4)the defendant makes a motion to change to the county seat at arraignment. If such a situation exists, the court must move the case to county seat. Are you still disagreeing with me about this?
Not at all. But I never once asserted this was not the case. I see now that I may have misinterpreted your original statement to imply that the court must change the venue upon request. I see that you had as condition "1" that the change have been requested of the officer at the scene. If I misinterpreted your intent, my apologies.

For clarification, I think you mean to say that you doubt there is more than one traffic court in any county seat. No? And yes, there are a number of courts in the city of Los Angeles (the county seat of Los Angeles County) that hear traffic cases so they all qualify as county seat traffic courts.
Yes ... sorry ... still haven't had that cup of coffee.

With the exception of Los Angeles, I do not believe any county seat has more than one traffic court. Oddly enough, Santa Clara County - with the county seat in San Jose has NO court that hears traffic matters ... the nearest such court would be next door in Santa Clara.

Yes, most people don’t know their legal rights and even the police officers are often not fully informed on this point. My hope is that those that read this forum will be better educated for having followed along.
I am fortunate enough now to actually live and work in the county seat, so my officers don't have to worry about the issue.

And, yes, that's why most of us participate here.

- Carl
 
CVC 40502(b) addresses ONLY the issuance of the notice to appear in the filed. it does NOT address a request for a change of venue to the county seat AFTER that time. There may be some other requirement, but it ain't 40502.
Correct, that requirement is addressed in the Penal Code, Section 1462.2. 40502 establishes which court has the proper jurisdiction (the county seat - assuming all conditions are met) and 1462.2 establishes the remedy if the proper court isn’t designated on the notice to appear (i.e. the court must change the venue to the county seat court).


If I misinterpreted your intent, my apologies.
No harm, no foul. OK, I think we understand the points we were each trying to make. I just hope we haven’t confused too many other readers. :)
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
To clarify for others, I read freedomminute's response to be that a defendant had a right to a change of venue after a citation was issued without reading that he prefaced that argument with the fact that the argument was present only IF the officer in the field refused/declined to make the change to the county seat as required pursuant to CVC 40502(b). It was my error and my bad reading.

This is what happens when you read too fast or without benefit of campaign ... which it was when I responded, I can't recall. I suspect it was a lack of caffeine as it was before I went to work, and less than an hour after I woke up (I worked til about 1 AM the previous night and got to bed about 3 AM). My bad.

- Carl
 

Find the Right Lawyer for Your Legal Issue!

Fast, Free, and Confidential
data-ad-format="auto">
Top