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Standing in a Handicap Slot

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njdriver1

Junior Member
What is the name of your state? New Jersey

I was driving my mother to work and stopped at a Dunkin Donuts. I pulled into the only space possible which was an empty handicap slot. On top of this, there is a highway 15feet from the parking lot, so standing and waiting for a slot to open up is very dangerous. As I sat in the driver_s seat with the car running, my mother went in. A cop pulled up behind me and came and asked for my license and registration. Now his car is in the way of cars coming off the highway causing an even more dangerous situation. He said I was _parked_ in a handicap slot and he was going to give me a ticket.

Now, when I asked him that isn_t it considered standing and not parking if I am sitting in the driver_s seat with the car on with a sign that says no parking, and doesn_t read no parking or standing. On top of it, he said that since he had to get out of his car to come to ask for my license, no handicap person would be able to do the same. I replied that but the difference is that you snuck up on me and a handicap person would honk at me to move since I am in the car and fully capable of doing so. He said my logic is wrong and that to go fight it with the judge.

Do you think I have a chance of it being thrown out? I_ve had my license for five years and its absolutely clean _ no moving or any violation of any sort. This happened in New Jersey
 
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BelizeBreeze

Senior Member
njdriver1 said:
What is the name of your state? New Jersey

I was driving my mother to work and stopped at a Dunkin Donuts. I pulled into the only space possible which was a empty handicap slot. On top of this, there is a highway 20 feet behind the parking lot, so standing and waiting for a slot to open up is very dangerous. As I sat in the driver’s seat with the car running, my mother went in. A cop pulled up behind me and came and asked for my license and registration. Now his car is in the way of cars coming of the highway causing an even more dangerous situation. He said I was ‘parked’ in a handicap and he was going to give me a ticket.

Now, when I asked him that isn’t it considered standing and not parking if I am sitting in the drivers seat with the car on with a sign that says no parking, and doesn’t read no parking or standing, he said my logic is wrong and that to go fight it with the judge.

Do you think I have a chance of it being thrown out? I’ve had my license for five years and its absolutely clean – no moving or any violation of any sort. This happened in New Jersey
you were parked. period.
 

patstew

Member
njdriver1 said:
I was driving my mother to work and stopped at a Dunkin Donuts. I pulled into the only space possible which was an empty handicap slot.
What, no drive-through?

njdriver1 said:
Now, when I asked him that isn_t it considered standing and not parking if I am sitting in the driver_s seat with the car on with a sign that says no parking, and doesn_t read no parking or standing. On top of it, he said that since he had to get out of his car to come to ask for my license, no handicap person would be able to do the same. I replied that but the difference is that you snuck up on me and a handicap person would honk at me to move since I am in the car and fully capable of doing so. He said my logic is wrong and that to go fight it with the judge.

Do you think I have a chance of it being thrown out?
No.

Next time, drive around the block and pick her up.
 
OP - Don't you know there are always law enforcement officers hangin' around donut shops. . . :D

You can always go to court, but I doubt the judge will buy into your logic. I'm curious though, how much is a handicap parking ticket in your state?

KTL
 

justalayman

Senior Member
njdriver1 said:
I_ve had my license for five years and its absolutely clean _ no moving or any violation of any sort.
Until now

Unless mom or you are handicapped and have a valid HC parking permit, you deserved the ticket you got.

Now for the lecture:

a handicapped person should not have to honk at you to get you to move from a parking spot you had absolutely no business using. Get with the program and have a bit of respect for those that need those spots. I doubt they get all thrilled just because they get to park up close to the door. I am sure most of them would gladly walk the distance, if they could.
 

Smiles

Member
kNOwtheLAW said:
OP - Don't you know there are always law enforcement officers hangin' around donut shops. . . :D
Heh.

OP, check the permanent statutes in your state by visiting the Legislature and on the left side navigation you'll find 'Laws and Constitution'. Pick statutes. You can find the statute in there.

You violated C.39:4-197.3(c):
c. Designating restricted parking spaces for use by persons who have been issued special vehicle identification cards by the Division of Motor Vehicles pursuant to the provisions of P.L.1949, c.280 (C.39:4-204 et seq.) and section 1 of P.L.1977, c.202 (C.39:4-197.5). Any person parking a motor vehicle in a restricted parking space without a special vehicle identification card shall be liable to a fine of $250 for the first offense and, for subsequent offenses, a fine of at least $250 and up to 90 days' community service on such terms and in such form as the court shall deem appropriate, or any combination thereof.
Most interestingly, though, are the definitions of parking and standing as stated at the beginning of Title 39:
"Parking" means the standing or waiting on a street, road or highway of a vehicle not actually engaged in receiving or discharging passengers or merchandise, unless in obedience to traffic regulations or traffic signs or signals.
[...]
"Stopping or standing," when prohibited, means any cessation of movement of a vehicle, whether occupied or not, except when necessary to avoid conflict with other traffic or in compliance with the directions of a police officer or traffic control sign or signal.
Case law in NJ may have expanded the definition of parking in a handicap space to include standing. Standing in a handicap space probably violates the spirit of the law, if not the letter; you will surely need to do more research on this (or contact an attorney) before presenting a case in court. Well, you don't need to, I guess. You can always wing it, plenty of people do. :)
 

justalayman

Senior Member
Most interestingly, though, are the definitions of parking and standing as stated at the beginning of Title 39:
Quote:
"Parking" means the standing or waiting on a street, road or highway of a vehicle not actually engaged in receiving or discharging passengers or merchandise, unless in obedience to traffic regulations or traffic signs or signals.
[...]
"Stopping or standing," when prohibited, means any cessation of movement of a vehicle, whether occupied or not, except when necessary to avoid conflict with other traffic or in compliance with the directions of a police officer or traffic control sign or signal.

Case law in NJ may have expanded the definition of parking in a handicap space to include standing. Standing in a handicap space probably violates the spirit of the law, if not the letter; you will surely need to do more research on this (or contact an attorney) before presenting a case in court. Well, you don't need to, I guess. You can always wing it, plenty of people do.
Why would it need to expand the definition. The definition of parking is all that is needed. The OP was not actively recieving or discharging a passenger. He was waiting i.e. parking (per your quoted definitions). If the OP threw mom out and then moved on, he could possibly maybe fight the ticket on that technicality but he was parked.

Why waste the time pissing off a judge with a lame story. Just pay the ticket and get it over with.
 

Smiles

Member
justalayman said:
Why would it need to expand the definition. The definition of parking is all that is needed. The OP was not actively recieving or discharging a passenger. He was waiting i.e. parking (per your quoted definitions). If the OP threw mom out and then moved on, he could possibly maybe fight the ticket on that technicality but he was parked.
To begin with, parking is defined on roadways only; this is a private, off-street parking area. This distinction would make a difference in my jurisdiction for most signage, but not necessarily in NJ.

I think the OP violated the spirit of the law (I wouldn't have done it), but that doesn't mean the OP has no alternatives. It's not a "waste" of time if the OP feels that he's not guilty, and so far nobody has cited anything to the contrary. At least I began the effort to see what the statutes said instead of launching into a lecture. FWIW, my sister is handicapped and so is my girlfriend (different reasons), and they've got the placards to prove it.
 
Smiles is right. . . The OP may be on to something.

This is in an interesting case as it relates to a handicap parking ticket in the city of Pittsburgh, PA: http://www.courts.state.pa.us/OpPosting/Superior/out/s20003_01.PDF.

Apparently the PA code requires a small sign noting the fine amount and your vehicle could be towed. It needs to be posted directly under the handicap sign. In this case it was not. On appeal to Superior Court the defendant prevailed.

Many times these signs are erected on private property where the owner of the property fails to adhere to the code section requiring this additional signage. The OP may want to check NJ statutes to determine if this extra sign is required and if this is an angle to attack the citation.

KTL
 

justalayman

Senior Member
To begin with, parking is defined on roadways only; this is a private, off-street parking area. This distinction would make a difference in my jurisdiction for most signage, but not necessarily in NJ.

While you are looking, you might want to research how the laws are applied to private property such as the parking lot. If you are correct, the cop could not have even legally presented the ticket.

In most states, parking lots are considered to be included in the description in the parking definition posted earlier (highway, roadway or other similar terminology). If not included there, they are often legally agreed upon patrols that allow the police the same powers on the private property that they have on public property.i.e. the laws apply to the lot the same as they do the public highways.

I'm not going to bother looking because the OP was an idiot for parking in a handicap spot to begin with and only seeks technicalities to avoid the justice he deserves.

and what good does a case from Pennsylvania do for a person ticketed in New Jersey.
-------------------
what the heck, I went and looked for a start for you.

start by looking at NJ statutes 39:4-138 o

then you can search to see the requirements for the signs

you are more than likely on a losing trek to nowhere.
 

Smiles

Member
justalayman said:
While you are looking, you might want to research how the laws are applied to private property such as the parking lot. If you are correct, the cop could not have even legally presented the ticket.

In most states, parking lots are considered to be included in the description in the parking definition posted earlier (highway, roadway or other similar terminology). If not included there, they are often legally agreed upon patrols that allow the police the same powers on the private property that they have on public property.i.e. the laws apply to the lot the same as they do the public highways.
Stop signs on private roadways/property can't be used as the basis for a citation in my jurisdiction. Doesn't mean cops don't hand out tickets that say just that. But you have to know the law. For example, I know of a stop sign at a company nearby, and I knew someone who was cited for not stopping. The law says you have to stop before you enter any highway, but the officer improperly cited him for not stopping at a stop sign, and the sign wasn't legal as it was on private property. Driver was found not responsible. Other signs in parking lots are generally unenforceable.

Anyway, that was my point about having the OP do more research.

Good find with C.39:4-138(o). It expressly permits officers to enforce the handicap space restrictions on private properly, which (to me) implies that officers are generally prohibited from enforcing other parking regulations on private property.

C.39:4-8.1 could be used as a basis to see if the sign has been approved by any municipal engineer. If it's not a legal sign, the OP shouldn't be cited for violating it.
 
Smiles said:
C.39:4-8.1 could be used as a basis to see if the sign has been approved by any municipal engineer. If it's not a legal sign, the OP shouldn't be cited for violating it.
Imagine that. . . A PA case may have planted the seed to determine if the handicap sign was a 'legal' sign in NJ. Good work Smiles!

New Jersey Statutes
39:4-8.1. Approval of handicapped parking spaces, signs
1. Any municipality, which pursuant to the provisions of R.S.39:4-8, R.S.39:4-197, section 1 of P.L.1977, c.202 (C.39:4-197.5) or section 1 of P.L.1977, c.309 (C.39:4-197.6) designates restricted parking spaces for use by handicapped persons, may, in lieu of having the Department of Transportation inspect those parking spaces and any signs erected in association therewith, designate the municipal engineer to determine whether or not those parking spaces and signs conform to the current standards prescribed by the Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices for Streets and Highways, adopted by the Commissioner of Transportation, and any other Department of Transportation rules and regulations governing such parking spaces and signs.

Any such parking spaces and signs shall be deemed approved and operational, and in need of no additional inspection by the Department of Transportation, when the municipal engineer, under his seal as a licensed professional engineer, shall certify to the commissioner that the parking spaces and signs:

a. have been approved by him after investigation; and

b. conform to the current standards prescribed by the Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices for Streets and Highways, as adopted by the commissioner, and any other Department of Transportation rules and regulations governing such parking spaces and signs.

The municipal engineer shall submit to the commissioner, together with his certification, detailed information as to the location and number of parking spaces, a certified copy of the ordinance, resolution or regulation designating the restricted parking spaces, and such other information as the commissioner shall deem necessary.

L.1991,c.285,s.1.

KTL
 

wdlugitch

Member
Did you think the judge is actually going to sympathize with your need for your mom to go get a donut, as justification for your vehicle being in the slot? You knew when you pulled in that slot you did not belong in that slot, you are only upset you were caught in that spot and will have to pay a big fine.
 

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