Street Cleaning Ticket (Chicago)

[tpdownes]

What is the name of your state? Illinois

I went out to my car this morning (Friday, 10/13/2006) and found that the Chicago Dept. of Revenue had decided to decorate my car orange for Friday the 13th. It was a ticket on my windshield for failure to move for street cleaning on the day before (Thursday). It was definitely not a special event ticket.

I parked there Wednesday around 6:30pm and made a very clear point to look around for street cleaning signs while I was looking for snow route signs - Wed. night was the first frost and Thursday morning the first snowfall of 2006. I parked at the southern end of the block and have to walk to the northern end to get to my apt. So I KNOW there were no signs.

I took the El on Thursday because of the snow and because I had to go the loop. On Firday morning I found the ticket.

I called up my ward office and asked whether they were installing permanent signs as many wards already have - not for a year. This was obviously asked for a reason so she got my story and called up the person in charge of such things and, through the secretary, claimed there was no problem. Frankly I don't see this as much of a point since the average city of Chicago worker being called by their ward office isn't going to say they weren't doing their job (street cleaning is now coordinated by the wards I believe).

I've previously fought a ticket for "no or improper display of city sticker" and won. It was a bogus ticket - I had a city sticker and it was on my windshield. But it took me a trip to city hall and 2 in-person hearings to prove it. So I don't trust the Orwellian-named Dept. of Revenue farther than I can throw it.

Anyways, I basically feel like I'm screwed. Any thoughts? Mail-in seems like it would be quicker to just pay the ticket. The snow aspect of the situation seems like the only angle that might get someone to believe me.

I am a graduate student so the scheduling of an in-person hearing is not a major problem unless it's totally pointless.

Yours,

Tom

 

[seniorjudge]

Go for it.

 

[HappyHusband]

What is the name of your state? Illinois

I went out to my car this morning (Friday, 10/13/2006) and found that the Chicago Dept. of Revenue had decided to decorate my car orange for Friday the 13th. It was a ticket on my windshield for failure to move for street cleaning on the day before (Thursday). It was definitely not a special event ticket.

I parked there Wednesday around 6:30pm and made a very clear point to look around for street cleaning signs while I was looking for snow route signs - Wed. night was the first frost and Thursday morning the first snowfall of 2006. I parked at the southern end of the block and have to walk to the northern end to get to my apt. So I KNOW there were no signs.

I took the El on Thursday because of the snow and because I had to go the loop. On Firday morning I found the ticket.

I called up my ward office and asked whether they were installing permanent signs as many wards already have - not for a year. This was obviously asked for a reason so she got my story and called up the person in charge of such things and, through the secretary, claimed there was no problem. Frankly I don't see this as much of a point since the average city of Chicago worker being called by their ward office isn't going to say they weren't doing their job (street cleaning is now coordinated by the wards I believe).

I've previously fought a ticket for "no or improper display of city sticker" and won. It was a bogus ticket - I had a city sticker and it was on my windshield. But it took me a trip to city hall and 2 in-person hearings to prove it. So I don't trust the Orwellian-named Dept. of Revenue farther than I can throw it.

Anyways, I basically feel like I'm screwed. Any thoughts? Mail-in seems like it would be quicker to just pay the ticket. The snow aspect of the situation seems like the only angle that might get someone to believe me.

I am a graduate student so the scheduling of an in-person hearing is not a major problem unless it's totally pointless.

Yours,

Tom

I'm having trouble following your story. Could you please define the following terms used in your post:

El
loop
snow
ward
ward office

 

[wirry1422]

To the op: First off regarding snow routes, there are two types of snow routes. The main type, which is on all arterial streets, ie streets with cta bus routes, is the two inch ban. This snow route has a red white and blue sign with a snowflake. The two inch ban is enforced year round when the accumulation of snow on the roadway surface is greater then two inches. Tickets are written for this ($30), but generally vehicles are not towed (if they are, they are only relocated to a side street, not impounded.) This rule is actually not enforced unless the storm is major with well in excess of 2 inches, usually six inches or greater over a short period of time (several hours). If this is the case, the city will announce thru the media, that a snow route ban is to take effect at such and such a time. The other snow route is on only 12 or so major streets (including Milwaukee, Division, Foster, Madison, Stoney Island, etc.) in the city and is a red and white sign posted below the regular snow route sign. This is the overnight winter parking ban. This takes effect from 3-7 am from December 1st to April 1st, everynight, regardless of the weather. This ban is always strictly enforced and vehicles are ticketed ($50) and towed ($150) to the pound for a total cost of $200. No "side streets", even the busier ones (every two full blocks, ie Wilson, Roscoe, Racine, Webster etc.), have any type of winter parking restrictions, only the arterial streets, usually located every four full length blocks, with the cta bus routes and electric traffic signals (ie Diversey, Belmont, Addison, Irving Park, Damen, Ashland, etc.).

Now, as for the street cleaning, if you parked on a side street, its possible temporary orange signs were posted on a nearby tree or lamp post at eye level. If you were not looking for these, you might have missed them. If you were and didn't see any on the whole block, then do the in-person hearing and tell the alj. They will do a computer search to see if a lot of other cars were ticketed on that block on that day. If so, you win. If not, you lose. Now, Definitions:


El= elevated electrically propelled urban transit rail system
Loop= the area of downtown Chicago outlined by El tracks on all for sides
Snow= Fluffy white crystaline structures formed from frozen rain droplets, which fall from the sky in vast quantities in chicago
Ward= the city is divided into 50 seperate political territories known as "wards" with each ward being represented in the city council by an alderman.
Ward office= The headquarters of each ward, which contains the office of the alderman and his/her staff.

 

[tpdownes]

I understand the difference between snow routes and temporary parking bans for street cleaning etc.. I was looking for orange signs on trees, etc, while looking for snow route signs. It's a side street, but one with a reasonable amount of traffic. As I'm new to the neighborhood I was just being careful that it might be a 2" route.

Is it worth trying to get a specific claim on the time of sign installation out of the people in my ward office? If it were less than 24 hours before the ticket was issued (9:59am) it would put me in the odd situation of claiming that they are lying about the time, but if you don't believe me, believe them.

Tom

 

[wirry1422]

The ward office would not know when the signs were actually installed, only when they were supposed to be installed. And yes, all temporary street cleaning signs need to be installed a minimum of 24 hours before the time in which they take effect. This means that if the signs were not installed prior to 9 am on October 12th, the ticket is invalid. You can tell the judge you parked after 9 am on the 12th a specifically looked for signs on the entirety of the block and saw none, and see if the judge believes you. He may, the alj's actually do statistically dismiss 50% of all in-person hearing contested tickets, so if you have the time, go for it. You will get an entire week to show up at any of the hearing facilities between 9 and 5. The waits are short to non-existant, so its pretty convenient.

 

[chitown]

Oh the sweet memories of living in Chicago you two have brought back to me!

Most ppl dont fight 'em so your appearance alone should garner some brownie pts from the Judge. Is a good educational experience as well.

 

[tpdownes]

Thanks for your help, wirry et al. I checked the request for in-person hearing box. I can always change my mind and just pay it later.

When I called the ward office, the lady put me on hold so she could talk with the guy who puts the signs up. The ward offices themselves now directly control the scheduling of street cleaning. It was difficult to get a detailed answer from the lady as she was just passing on info and didn't have a vested interested in the matter. Her statement amounted to a claim that signs were up but wouldn''t state a specific time. In any case, I imagine going down this route would just result in the guy claiming he did his job correctly. And I'd probably have to get him to sign a statement saying he didn't.

I've been through the in-person process before - fighting a bogus ticket for "no or improper display of city sticker". I had to get a dated receipt at the City Clerk's office and take a photo of my car. My impression of the process was that you stood a good chance if you displayed a semblance of IQ and had a defense that amounted to more than "it happened and I don't want to pay it."

 

[wirry1422]

Well remember, no one will appear to testify on behalf of the city. The parking enforcement aid will not be there and neither will anyonw else. Now it is possible for the ticketer to write a message if handwritten or type a message on the handheld ticket computer, but this is rarely done unless you got into a confrontation with the ticketer (which you obviously didn't.) and really p them off. So its just you and the judge and a form printed ticket. Now you case is a case where you can't really bring in any documentation, nor can you show photos (because the orange signs are temporary and taken down immediately.) So the best thing that you can do besides just pleading your case, would be if you had a witness who was there when you went on your parking sign scavenger hunt who could testify that there were no signs at such and such a time (inside 24 hours), that would probably go a long way towards getting the ticket dismissed. Remember also that the hearing will not be for at least four months, perhaps longer. So at the very least, requesting the in-person hearing gives you a long time before you will have to pay the fine. Just make sure you're not late paying. If you don't pay for 30 days or longer after the due date (either from the date the ticket was written or from the date you lost the hearing, if you requested and attended one), the fine amount will double.