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Weird question about side windows in CA

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What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA

I have an interesting question about whether the CVC requires vehicles to have side windows if they are originally equipped with them. I have looked (albeit briefly) over the whole CVC and it seems like Chapter 4: Windshield and Mirrors (26700-26712) would be the place to find such an answer, but I don't seem to find one. Example: a thief breaks your driver's front side window. Would it be legal to not replace the window (at your own risk, of course)? Or must there be one?

Where I'm going with this is... many people get fix it tickets for illegal window tint. Being that I like to work on cars and have removed my side windows before fairly easily, I came up with the brilliant (I know some of you will disagree) idea that if one were to remove the offending windows completely from the car and then take the ticket to get signed off, they may have found the most inexpensive solution to the issue, provided that it is not in violation of some other law.

I think Carl will be able to provide the most experienced answer, and I would specifically appreciate his input on the matter. Thank you.
 


HighwayMan

Super Secret Senior Member
Well that's creative...

If I was asked to "sign off" on the correction I would not. But that's just me.

Of course, perhaps Carl could offer his insight that is based more upon the CVC...
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
Side windows are not required by the CVC.

If you get a citation for unlawful window tint and remove the window, and the court accepts the officer's signature of correction because you removed the windows entirely, then that should work fine. But, it might be annoying when driving on the freeway, driving in rain or snow, etc.

You can drive with side windows down, drive with a convertible, drive a golf cart that's properly registered, etc.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
I think the implication is that he will get the "correction" signed off on and then put the windows back. ;)
Then the next time he is cited, he could be committing a misdemeanor and go to jail. If that's a risk he wants to take, welll ...
 
I think the implication is that he will get the "correction" signed off on and then put the windows back. ;)
Correct

Then the next time he is cited, he could be committing a misdemeanor and go to jail. If that's a risk he wants to take, welll ...
Care to expand on that? Are you suggesting that because I would have fixed my tint and then got caught again later with it, already knowing it was unlawful, that it becomes a misdemeanor?

It would also be fishy to the officer signing off on a car that had been written up for tinted windows and then all of a sudden has none, I realize that. But if the vehicle is now legal, it may fly. Which brings me to my next question: can the officer refuse to sign off the ticket if the vehicle is no longer in violation of the law? I would assume he can refuse all he wants to... but if it's legal and nobody will sign off on it... just seems weird.

I also came up with a better way to play it. Buy some junkyard windows that aren't tinted and swap those in if it happens, then it will be legal and not fishy.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
Care to expand on that? Are you suggesting that because I would have fixed my tint and then got caught again later with it, already knowing it was unlawful, that it becomes a misdemeanor?
It can, yes. A lot depends on the officer.

CVC 40616 says, in part: "Any person willfully violating a written promise to correct or willfully failing to deliver proof of correction of violation is
guilty of a misdemeanor."


We have used this to some good use locally. I live in a smallish community and when people pull this kinda stuff, we catch 'em and charge 'em.

Of course, next time the officer may choose to forget about making the violation correctable.

You really think you're the first person to come up with this kind of game? :cool:

can the officer refuse to sign off the ticket if the vehicle is no longer in violation of the law? I would assume he can refuse all he wants to... but if it's legal and nobody will sign off on it... just seems weird.
Nothing requires him to sign it off. But, you can always ask the court to do it.

It seems like a long way to go and a lot of work to avoid paying the $25 correction fee.
 
It can, yes. A lot depends on the officer.

CVC 40616 says, in part: "Any person willfully violating a written promise to correct or willfully failing to deliver proof of correction of violation is
guilty of a misdemeanor."

{snip}
Of course, next time the officer may choose to forget about making the violation correctable.
I see, thanks for the education. It would seem to me that this sort of situation would come about where an officer already knows your car and has prior knowledge about what you were cited for previously.


You really think you're the first person to come up with this kind of game? :cool:

It seems like a long way to go and a lot of work to avoid paying the $25 correction fee.
Haha, no I don't. I do, however, understand why the law is in place (I know why it was enacted in 1999) and I respect that.

What is the $25 fee you speak of? Isn't the correction fee the fee you have to pay when it gets signed off? Because that's actually what I'd like to pay, not the cost of the fine itself. See, I've been cited twice for illegal tint (have driven a total of 5 years with tinted windows) and one time I just paid the fine without even trying to correct it. I cried a little bit and then decided it was worth it and opened my wallet (the economy was better and I was making more money back then). It was a lot more than $25, can't remember but it was easily a $250 - 300 fine. The $25 to correction fee is nice but you have to pay somebody to remove the tint also and then it's gone for good. So, when I decided to pay the fine it was done with. I did not know, however, that I could have been possibly violating a promise to correct the tint. The only thing I did sign was the actual ticket. I think most people think that if they just pay the ticket that they can keep it. If the state really wanted you to take it off, they should require it to be verified upon the ticket payment or they should have safety inspections every year.

Nothing requires him to sign it off. But, you can always ask the court to do it.
And ironically, the second time I got cited I went to the court to get it signed off. One of the guys who was checking people in was bored with nothing to do and told me he'd sign it off. So he checked out my car with the windows still how they were when the officer had ticketed me (I know, I push the line between dumb and lucky a lot). My windows were 35% front, 5% rear. So he asks me "so like, when you were ticketed, all of your windows were as dark as the back ones right?" and I just basically said yes and added some BS fluff to it. He signed it off and I went on my way. I know I was lucky. It doesn't take a genius to recognize how dark a window is tinted, it's rather easy if you have the eye for it.

But in both cases, I was unaware that I could have been committing a misdemeanor. It would seem to me that in the 2nd case I was because I was actually getting a proof of correction. In the first case, I never attempted to get a correction nor was I required to, so it doesn't seem like VC40616 would apply. It also doesn't seem like the court itself would issue that charge based upon seeing multiple tickets for that offense, but rather an officer who has witnessed it and has prior knowledge as I mentioned before.

So, Carl, I'd be interested to know if one who is cited with illegal tint still has the option to plead guilty and pay the fine vs getting the offense corrected (provided, as you said, he opts to make it correctable). And if so, does pleading guilty imply that you have agreed to fix it as well?
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
I see, thanks for the education. It would seem to me that this sort of situation would come about where an officer already knows your car and has prior knowledge about what you were cited for previously.
Or, they run your DMV record and find the previous cite for the same offense ...

What is the $25 fee you speak of? Isn't the correction fee the fee you have to pay when it gets signed off?
That's what you pay the court for a correctable violation. Some agencies charge about the same (or less) for a sign off fee, so you might pay about $50 all told in some jurisdictions. Still, no work to remove and replace the windows, and no risk of additional jail time - just correct the problem.

See, I've been cited twice for illegal tint (have driven a total of 5 years with tinted windows) and one time I just paid the fine without even trying to correct it. I cried a little bit and then decided it was worth it and opened my wallet (the economy was better and I was making more money back then).
And the next time you were stopped, the officers could have been creative and charged you with additional offenses and made them uncorrectable.

Paying the fine does not give you carte blanche to keep doing it.

So, Carl, I'd be interested to know if one who is cited with illegal tint still has the option to plead guilty and pay the fine vs getting the offense corrected (provided, as you said, he opts to make it correctable). And if so, does pleading guilty imply that you have agreed to fix it as well?
You plead guilty and pay the fine, you can still get cited again and again. In fact, additional offenses for the failure to correct can be applied.

Most of the time, agencies don't look into these violations, but some do ... and if you get the same officer a second time and he remembers you, it's almost a certainty.
 
Or, they run your DMV record and find the previous cite for the same offense ...
Does the DMV keep that on record forever? And does that DMV info show the vehicle plate or VIN number of the car it happened in each time? Example: if you are caught driving in your friend's and it happens to be your second offense, but in a different vehicle, would that be able to be determined by the officer?

That's what you pay the court for a correctable violation. Some agencies charge about the same (or less) for a sign off fee, so you might pay about $50 all told in some jurisdictions. Still, no work to remove and replace the windows, and no risk of additional jail time - just correct the problem.
I'd rather pay the correction fee and correct the problem by having a set of spare set of unmodified windows and doing all the work to swap them in, vs paying that same fee and either removing the tint myself or paying someone to do it. Swapping the windows is not hard if you are inclined. De-tinting the windows takes way more time if you do it yourself and it also requires a lot of meticulous work. Even in the first situation, I can decide to keep the spare windows in because it's not worth it to put the illegal ones back in and risk getting in more trouble :eek: ;)
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
Does the DMV keep that on record forever?
They do, but it is generally only visible even to law enforcement for three years.

And does that DMV info show the vehicle plate or VIN number of the car it happened in each time?
Yes.

I'd rather pay the correction fee and correct the problem by having a set of spare set of unmodified windows and doing all the work to swap them in, vs paying that same fee and either removing the tint myself or paying someone to do it. Swapping the windows is not hard if you are inclined. De-tinting the windows takes way more time if you do it yourself and it also requires a lot of meticulous work. Even in the first situation, I can decide to keep the spare windows in because it's not worth it to put the illegal ones back in and risk getting in more trouble :eek: ;)
Or, better yet, DO NOT ILLEGALLY TINT THE WINDOWS!

If people put as much energy into obeying the law as they do in trying to find a way around the law, their lives would be so much simpler ... and they'd save time and money ta boot!
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
Or, better yet, DO NOT ILLEGALLY TINT THE WINDOWS!

If people put as much energy into obeying the law as they do in trying to find a way around the law, their lives would be so much simpler ... and they'd save time and money ta boot!
Sage advice!
 
Or, better yet, DO NOT ILLEGALLY TINT THE WINDOWS!
Sure that's good advice but at this point, some amount time and money is involved to get it legal again. I'm just trying to minimize my costs given the situation I'm in currently.

Thanks for the chat Carl, I think you answered all of my questions. Very helpful as usual :)
 

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