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  1. #1
    Aquel is offline Junior Member
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    What is the legal definition of "Parking"?

    What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state? California

    I was picking up my daughter after school and stopped to let her in. A police man asked if I'd seen the "No Parking" signs and I answered "NO". He then started writing a ticket as my daughter approached and got in the car. I had stopped about 2-3 feet from the curb and protested I had not parked, only stopped to lpick her up, but he insisted I was parked and issued the ticket. I appealed it to the city, but it was upheld as "Officer states he approached the car after it was 'parked'". I found a definition of "Parking" in Black's Law dictionary and sent a copy of it with the request for an "administrative Review" but it didn't seem to matter (it was from some Minnesota Court decision). I asked for a hearing (having sent in the $30 fine) and I want to have as much ammo as possible when I confront the hearing official. Can anyone refer me to a better or more appropriate statute or definition for "PARKING" or suggest how to approach this? This was for the city of Arcadia, in Southern California.
  2. #2
    CdwJava is offline Senior Member
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    What section were you cited for? And generally, its no stopping, standing or parking.

    Of course, he could have hit you with a moving violation for impeding traffic ... if you weren't unlawfully parked, then you were stopped in a traffic lane. Which would you prefer?

    The specific section will lead to what the definition is.

    - Carl
    A Nor Cal Cop Sergeant

    "Make mine a double mocha ...
    And a croissant!"

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM
  3. #3
    fusu is offline Junior Member
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    What is the definition of "Parking"

    undefined[QUOTE=Aquel]What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state? California

    I had exactly the same problem as originally stated by Aquel, instead of my city was Lafayette (CA) and the fine was $250. I found a few definitions of parking in the Internet, mostly from Universities. For example, the attached links may help.

    [url]http://www.taps.ucdavis.edu/parking/citations/code.html[/url]
    [url]http://safetyweb.uoregon.edu/parking/rules.htm#definitions[/url]

    I surely hope some one has the legal definition from California DMV or traffic law.

    Fu
  4. #4
    CdwJava is offline Senior Member
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    The legal definition of parking in CA may depend ont he specific citation given. But, in general, stopping, standing, and parking along a curb or in the roadway are given the same status and this is defined in numerous places in the CVC.

    It depends upon the section provided.

    The general definition si found in CVC 463:

    463. "Park or parking" shall mean the standing of a vehicle,
    whether occupied or not, otherwise than temporarily for the purpose
    of and while actually engaged in loading or unloading merchandise or
    passengers.


    There are other definitions and refinements depending on the section cited.

    - Carl
    A Nor Cal Cop Sergeant

    "Make mine a double mocha ...
    And a croissant!"

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM
  5. #5
    Shmi is offline Junior Member
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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by CdwJava View Post
    What section were you cited for? And generally, its no stopping, standing or parking.

    Of course, he could have hit you with a moving violation for impeding traffic ... if you weren't unlawfully parked, then you were stopped in a traffic lane. Which would you prefer?

    The specific section will lead to what the definition is.

    - Carl
    I see this is an old post; however, it came up on a google search for a parking defined. Upon reading this post, and seeing how many posts you have here (not a come and go person), I am compelled to reply.

    First and foremost, your post is dripping with sarcasm. Then, you end it with a Christian quote?!?!?!

    Second, he is not "obstructing traffic" if there were no traffic to obstruct.

    Third, there is a terminology known as "double parking." In some citites, it is permitted for the purpose of picking up and dropping off people or merchandise.

    Fourth, you contradicted yourself, when you said this person *was* illegally parked, then stated in a differing quote, the definition of permissible no parking as being ""Park or parking" shall mean the standing of a vehicle,
    whether occupied or not, otherwise than temporarily for the purpose
    of and while actually engaged in loading or unloading merchandise or
    passengers."

    Thus, the man in the opening post was "standing" or "stopping" and not "parking!"

    I see you sign it as being a "cop." I come from a family with many officers, including an immediate family member. Your the type that give them a bad name! As well as Christians!
  6. #6
    You Are Guilty is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shmi View Post
    I see this is an old post; however, it came up on a google search for a parking defined. Upon reading this post, and seeing how many posts you have here (not a come and go person), I am compelled to reply.

    First and foremost, your post is dripping with sarcasm. Then, you end it with a Christian quote?!?!?!

    Second, he is not "obstructing traffic" if there were no traffic to obstruct.

    Third, there is a terminology known as "double parking." In some citites, it is permitted for the purpose of picking up and dropping off people or merchandise.

    Fourth, you contradicted yourself, when you said this person *was* illegally parked, then stated in a differing quote, the definition of permissible no parking as being ""Park or parking" shall mean the standing of a vehicle,
    whether occupied or not, otherwise than temporarily for the purpose
    of and while actually engaged in loading or unloading merchandise or
    passengers."

    Thus, the man in the opening post was "standing" or "stopping" and not "parking!"

    I see you sign it as being a "cop." I come from a family with many officers, including an immediate family member. Your the type that give them a bad name! As well as Christians!
    I know this is an old post, but it came up when I googled "idiots", and felt compelled to reply. Good day, sir.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquility
    Once you get to crazy land, it is only a guess on how to get out.
  7. #7
    Shmi is offline Junior Member
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    For anyone else with consideration here, I, too, am looking for the legal definition of "parking." I have never received a parking ticket in my life, and a town (not a real police officer) gave one to my husband. It was given out of spite, by the officers own admission, and that of his "partner."

    In any event, I am in NY, and would like the definition. "Operating a Vehicle" in NY is considered such as having the keys in the ignition - irregardless of the persons intent to drive or not - irregardless of whether or not the engine is running.

    Section 1200 of the "New York State Vehicle and Traffic Law" states:

    "S 1200. Basic rules. (a) When stopping is prohibited by this article,
    or by local law, ordinance, order, rule or regulation, no person shall
    stop, stand or park a vehicle, whether occupied or not, except when necessary to avoid conflict with other traffic or in compliance with the directions of a police officer or traffic-control sign or signal.
    (b) When standing is prohibted by this article, or by local law, ordi-
    nance, order, rule or regulation, no person shall stand or park a vehi-
    cle, whether occupied or not, but may stop temporarily for the purpose of and while actually engaged in receiving or discharging passengers.
    (c) When parking is prohibited by this article, or by local law, ordi-
    nance, order, rule or regulation, no person shall park a vehicle, whether occupied or not, but may stop or stand temporarily for the purpose of and while actually engaged in loading or unloading merchandise or passengers."

    However, there are no definitions cited to differentiate for parking, standing, or stopping. Yet, they are listed as three (3) distinct individual acts.

    I cannot obtain a complete copy of the NYS Vehicle and Traffic Laws online. Is there a legal definition for parking?

    Thank you.
    DD
  8. #8
    Shmi is offline Junior Member
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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by You Are Guilty View Post
    I know this is an old post, but it came up when I googled "idiots", and felt compelled to reply. Good day, sir.
    One resorts to juvenile name calling when one does not have an intellectual argument by which to debate. Thank you for concurring that I am correct on all legal, and ethical, counts.

    All comments I have made were legal, accurate, correct, and professional.

    If you have a legal, respectable, sincere reply, I shall comment. I shalt also defend those who are mistreated, when compelled - as I was.
    Last edited by Shmi; 08-22-2007 at 12:51 PM.
  9. #9
    You Are Guilty is offline Senior Member
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    PS: There is, as far as I'm aware, exactly one NY lawyer who posts here, and, coincidentally enough, answers a lot of traffic law issues. Irregardlessly, since that happens to be me, my guess is your chances of getting a correct answer have gone down dramatically.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquility
    Once you get to crazy land, it is only a guess on how to get out.
  10. #10
    Shmi is offline Junior Member
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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by Curt581 View Post
    So you went through the bother of signing up as a member... just so you could take someone to task over a two and a half year old post?

    I feel compelled to agree.
    Again, no legal or intelligable comments. Clearly from the poster with 12,000 posts, and the immature, irrelevant replies: I see this is a lay mans bored for the unemployed and legally inept.

    Yes, when I see a so-called "Christian" posting in such a manner, I shalt reply when I feel led to do so. I make no apologies for that. I suggest your read up on singer BJ Thomas to see just how lethal your words can be; as that is the most publicly known case I can provide you with ATM.

    It is quite sad that you are so inept in legalities, yet on such a board posting. Clearly, I have made my case; and it is a valid one.

    I would ask how many traffic court cases you have researched and won? Or any legal case, for that matter? Have you read the statutes ? I see not. You may go and research now, so you can appear more intelligent. However, one needs the practice of skills and care, not mere regurgitation of words (as the poster did with scripture - and a flip quote of law).

    You can cite one portion of the law, than another. But, you will contradict yourself, as your friend had done. That shows clear ignorance of the law. And, it is frightening if this person is a police officer. For, my relatives do not have the time to make such posts. They are far too busy keeping up with current laws, training other officers, and doing their jobs properly - earning themselves respect.

    It appears I have hit a nerve of truth here.

    Incidentally, I was posting a question, as well. I would say that I was sorry you have missed it, but I do not resort to sarcasm. I shalt not read your replies, as you have no knowledge in these areas to give.

    I would hope you would come to learn to expand your knowledge and help for your fellow man; as opposed to trying to lift yourselves up by tearing others down (which only shows your true intent more clearly).

    You have not torn me down. As anyone can see, I am learned in both language, psychology and law (albeit, not traffic law).

    I, rather, feel pity for you. I hope you come to see that you can choose to change to help others, or remain on your self-destructive paths (which I am sure have harmed others.). If you feel so little of yourselves, then educate yourselves. You shalt never make yourselves truly feel better with such ignorant behavior.
  11. #11
    CdwJava is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shmi View Post
    First and foremost, your post is dripping with sarcasm. Then, you end it with a Christian quote?!?!?!
    "Sarcasm"? How is it "sarcasm" to cite the definition of PARKING in the OP's state of California?

    Second, he is not "obstructing traffic" if there were no traffic to obstruct.
    I do not see where the OP was cited for obstructing traffic so this is not relevant. If there WAS traffic, he could have been hit for impeding traffic - that's absolutely true. One cannot (lawfully) just STOP in a traffic lane whether vehicles are present or not.

    Third, there is a terminology known as "double parking." In some citites, it is permitted for the purpose of picking up and dropping off people or merchandise.
    There is no indication this was permitted here, and 2-3 feet from the curb would not be double parking in the rare circumstance that it were permitted (and I have no knowledge of any city here where this IS lawful ... but, maybe it is ... somewhere in CA ... pursuant to local ordinance).

    Fourth, you contradicted yourself, when you said this person *was* illegally parked, then stated in a differing quote, the definition of permissible no parking as being ""Park or parking" shall mean the standing of a vehicle,
    whether occupied or not, otherwise than temporarily for the purpose
    of and while actually engaged in loading or unloading merchandise or
    passengers."
    The OP asked for a general definition of parking in CA - that was the section I provided. Whether that was the section the OP was cited for, I cannot say. As I previously wrote, whether the citation was proper or not would depend on the specific section cited. CVC 463 is a definition section and not an enforcement section. I would have cited CVC 22502(a) for a vehicle stopped in the roadway with the right hand wheels more than 18" from the curb ... maybe for impeding, if I was so inclined.

    Thus, the man in the opening post was "standing" or "stopping" and not "parking!"
    The definition was requested and provided. As I just wrote, 463 is not an enforcement section. Most all the enforcement sections include language akin to "stopping, standing or parking ..."

    I see you sign it as being a "cop." I come from a family with many officers, including an immediate family member. Your the type that give them a bad name! As well as Christians!
    Wow! And just where do you get THAT opinion from?

    Perhaps you need to re-read the post I made and, perhaps, some of my others.

    - Carl
    A Nor Cal Cop Sergeant

    "Make mine a double mocha ...
    And a croissant!"

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM
  12. #12
    Shmi is offline Junior Member
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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by Curt581 View Post
    So you went through the bother of signing up as a member... just so you could take someone to task over a two and a half year old post?

    I feel compelled to agree.
    Again, no legal or intelligable comments. Clearly from the poster with 12,000 posts, and the immature, irrelevant replies: I see this is a lay mans bored for the unemployed and legally inept.

    Yes, when I see a so-called "Christian" posting in such a manner, I shalt reply when I feel led to do so. I make no apologies for that. I suggest your read up on singer BJ Thomas to see just how lethal your words can be; as that is the most publicly known case I can provide you with ATM.

    It is quite sad that you are so inept in legalities, yet on such a board posting. Clearly, I have made my case; and it is a valid one.

    I would ask how many traffic court cases you have researched and won? Or any legal case, for that matter? Have you read the statutes ? I see not. You may go and research now, so you can appear more intelligent. However, one needs the practice of skills and care, not mere regurgitation of words (as the poster did with scripture - and a flip quote of law).

    You can cite one portion of the law, than another. But, you will contradict yourself, as your friend had done. That shows clear ignorance of the law. And, it is frightening if this person is a police officer. For, my relatives do not have the time to make such posts. They are far too busy keeping up with current laws, training other officers, and doing their jobs properly - earning themselves respect.

    It appears I have hit a nerve of truth here.

    Incidentally, I was posting a question, as well. I would say that I was sorry you have missed it, but I do not resort to sarcasm. I shalt not read your replies, as you have no knowledge in these areas to give.

    I would hope you would come to learn to expand your knowledge and help for your fellow man; as opposed to trying to lift yourselves up by tearing others down (which only shows your true intent more clearly).

    You have not torn me down. As anyone can see, I am learned in both language, psychology and law (albeit, not traffic law).

    I, rather, feel pity for you. I hope you come to see that you can choose to change to help others, or remain on your self-destructive paths (which I am sure have harmed others.). If you feel so little of yourselves, then educate yourselves. You shalt never make yourselves truly feel better with such ignorant behavior.
  13. #13
    Shay-Pari'e is offline Senior Member
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    [QUOTE=You Are Guilty;1698682]I know this is an old post, but it came up when I googled "idiots", and felt compelled to reply. Good day, sir.

    LMAO, I needed that today, thanks YAG.
  14. #14
    moburkes is offline Senior Member
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    I'm gainfully employed, college-educated, Christian, and I know that, when I decide to open up an account on a forum, JUST FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE of ATTACKING someone, I've got serious mental problems.

    And, I would be be smart and wise enough, to use proper spelling and punctuation when doing so.

    Oh, but you and I are 2 different people, and I don't find things that aren't there.

    You are clearly an idiot. And, it makes me feel good to count you amongst us - the legally inept.
    My new signature:
    Originally Posted by arazi
    I'll take you on one-to-one in a volcabulary test anywhere, anyplace, anytime.
  15. #15
    Shmi is offline Junior Member
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    A much better reply. Thank you for replying.

    Quote Originally Posted by CdwJava View Post
    "Sarcasm"? How is it "sarcasm" to cite the definition of PARKING in the OP's state of California?
    It was not sarcasm to quote the law. It was sarcasm to ask which he would prefer - and the automatic assumption of guilt (which would not occur on a legitimate legal advice forum).

    I do not see where the OP was cited for obstructing traffic so this is not relevant.
    You were the one who asked if he would have preferred such a ticket, not I. Yes, your comment was irrelevant.

    If there WAS traffic, he could have been hit for impeding traffic - that's absolutely true. One cannot (lawfully) just STOP in a traffic lane whether vehicles are present or not.
    True. Again, I am not the one who said he was - nor deserved a ticket as such.

    There is no indication this was permitted here,
    And there was no indication that it was not. You made assumptions and immediately assumed guilt upon this person who came to you for legal quote.

    and 2-3 feet from the curb would not be double parking in the rare circumstance that it were permitted (and I have no knowledge of any city here where this IS lawful ... but, maybe it is ... somewhere in CA ... pursuant to local ordinance).
    Then he could not have been "parked" in a "no parking" zone. Irregardless, by your own admission in a latter quote: it is legal *to* park when picking up/dropping off a person(s) or merchandise.

    There are cities where standing or parking on the roadway side of a vehicle stopped, standing or parked at the curb; in other words, "double parking". You would need to find out to what cities this is (and is not) legal.

    The OP asked for a general definition of parking in CA - that was the section I provided. Whether that was the section the OP was cited for, I cannot say. As I previously wrote, whether the citation was proper or not would depend on the specific section cited. CVC 463 is a definition section and not an enforcement section. I would have cited CVC 22502(a) for a vehicle stopped in the roadway with the right hand wheels more than 18" from the curb ... maybe for impeding, if I was so inclined.
    You did not provide that information to him in the initial post - to which you presumed guilt and replied with sarcasm - followed by Holy Scripture.

    The definition was requested and provided. As I just wrote, 463 is not an enforcement section. Most all the enforcement sections include language akin to "stopping, standing or parking ..."
    To which the law is then making a clear distinction, without definition. This, with a good attorney, is reason for clarification.

    Wow! And just where do you get THAT opinion from?
    Your signature.

    Perhaps you need to re-read the post I made and, perhaps, some of my others.
    I have, upon this reply. I stand by it. However, I do apologize for replying in anger to the use of scripture. That, was inappropriate and wrong. I URGE you to not use Holy Scripture in your signature, if you are going to be sarcastic and lacking in compassion to posters! I SINCERELY URGE you on that note! I've seen it harm too many people. I am not saying that you, being a Christian, are not prone to err - as we all are! I am urging you, with all sincerity and concern, to not do so if you feel you may post in an offensive manner.

    May God Bless and guide you, and I apologize if I have offended you.

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