Bank Accounts

[imgracie]

What is the name of your state? Michigan
Sorry - one more question. Deceased had 2 bank accounts that were not listed as "assets" when drawing up his Trust and LLC (which both were funded with other assets, and had their own checking accounts, attorney never even knew these 2 accounts existed until notified by another sibling who "took possession" of the checkbook after the death). Both the deceased and daughter were on the printed checks and on the savings book. The daughter was listed as No. 2 on bank application for accounts. Deceased also wrote a note - stating "you are the owner of these accounts, not to be put in trust and not to be probated. A son is listed as No. 3 on the bank application, but his name does not appear on the checks or on the savings account. This son was named executor of the estate. He negotiated with the bank to close these accounts. Can that be done without the signature of the owner who's name was listed as No. 2 on the account? In Michigan does the Will supercede the "owners" rights to an account?

 

[BlondiePB]

The daughter was listed as No. 2 on bank application for accounts. Deceased also wrote a note - stating "you are the owner of these accounts, not to be put in trust and not to be probated. A son is listed as No. 3 on the bank application, but his name does not appear on the checks or on the savings account. This son was named executor of the estate. He negotiated with the bank to close these accounts. Can that be done without the signature of the owner who's name was listed as No. 2 on the account? In Michigan does the Will supercede the "owners" rights to an account?

It is not a requirement for all owners of accounts to be listed on checks. Without viewing the bank documents, it is not possible to determine whether there were any inappropriate actions regarding the brother/executor closing the account. Typically, joint owned accounts do not go through probate. Consult with a local attorney.

 

[Dandy Don]

Are YOU the daughter of the deceased? Then daughter needs to be talking to the bank NOW about why they handled this money the way they did. She needs to be raising holy heck no matter who they issued the check to--they should have issued it to her or to both her and the brother if they did not issue the check to the estate, and anyway this money should bypass probate since individual account owners have already been designated.

It's unclear whether the bank issued the check to the executor for the estate or for the executor individually.

So what has he done with the money--is he giving any details--is the money in his personal account or has he put it in an estate account?

DANDY DON IN OKLAHOMA ([email protected])

 

[imgracie]

Yes I am a daughter, but not "the daughter." The deceased (our father) also wrote a note regarding these accounts - which was locked up in a safe that said "these accounts belong to you ______, not to be in Trust and not to be probated, you are the owner." The bank application lists the owners as follows: 1. Father (deceased); 2. Sister and 3. Brother. Only father and sister's names were on the checks and passbooks. Attorney for estate did not know of these accounts - father never presented them as assets. Another sibling "took" all of father's personal property from sister's home, including checkbook and turned them over to the estate's attorney. Atty told "owner sister" "I didn't know about these accounts but they need to be included with his assets." Brother has gone to bank "as executor" and closed out the accounts - probably did put money into LLC, but that was not father's wishes.

 

[BlondiePB]

but that was not father's wishes.

If your father wanted his money to be "in trust," he needed to do that prior to his passing. Again, just because an owner is not listed on the checks, that does not mean that a person is NOT an owner of the account. Your brother was listed as an owner of the account. He did not have to be on the checks.

You stated that your brother went to the bank as the executor of the estate and closed the accounts. Did he do this with Letters of Testamentary/Administration? Where is the your OWN attorney in all this? No one knows what your brother did with the money? The executor's attorney works for the executor, not the other heirs.

The more you write the more this sounds like a "free for all". Only the court appointed executor who has been issued the letters has the legal authorization to go through the estate of a deceased and secure those assests for PROPER distribution according to the deceased's will or intestate (without will) statutes. If the executor is stealing from the estate, the executor needs to be removed or post a bond.

 

[Dandy Don]

You say the note you have lists brother as account owner. So if your father gave the same note to the bank or if the bank has that same information that shows brother as an owner, they felt they had justification to pay it to him, but you still need to find out if it was paid to him as executor (if the check was made payable to the estate) or if it was paid to him in only his name as account owner. Bank may have made a mistake if they did not pay ALL account owners and split the money between them.

 

[imgracie]

Bank accounts

Whew - thanks for the responses "free for all" about hits it on the head. It is all very strange. Don't know what the bank did with the money. Don't know if brother had "letters of administration when he went to bank." My original question was "Does the Will supercede "ownership"? Wouldn't Owner No. 2 have to "sign off" on the closing of the accounts before Owner No. 3 can close them?

The "estate" attorney refuses to talk to anyone but the executor (won't even answer phone calls from another attorney). The following were created before his death: pour-over Will, a Revocable Trust and an LLC. The Trust was funded with his assets, including cds, bank accounts (except for the 2 he "gave" my sister), stocks, bonds. The Trust was to revert to the LLC upon his death and the LLC included his real estate property and life insurance benefits, to be divided between all of the siblings. So far the "managers" of the LLC have refused to turn over the keys or certificates of ownership of the LLC to the other siblings (it's been over 4 months), yet they and their immediate families have been spending as much time as they can at the home (it is a "resort" type home), using LLC monies to pay their bills. We are pretty much at a standstill since the "estate" attorney (who we've been told now represents the LLC) won't talk to anyone.

 

[BlondiePB]

Whew - thanks for the responses "free for all" about hits it on the head. It is all very strange. Don't know what the bank did with the money. Don't know if brother had "letters of administration when he went to bank." My original question was "Does the Will supercede "ownership"? Wouldn't Owner No. 2 have to "sign off" on the closing of the accounts before Owner No. 3 can close them?

The "estate" attorney refuses to talk to anyone but the executor (won't even answer phone calls from another attorney). The following were created before his death: pour-over Will, a Revocable Trust and an LLC. The Trust was funded with his assets, including cds, bank accounts (except for the 2 he "gave" my sister), stocks, bonds. The Trust was to revert to the LLC upon his death and the LLC included his real estate property and life insurance benefits, to be divided between all of the siblings. So far the "managers" of the LLC have refused to turn over the keys or certificates of ownership of the LLC to the other siblings (it's been over 4 months), yet they and their immediate families have been spending as much time as they can at the home (it is a "resort" type home), using LLC monies to pay their bills. We are pretty much at a standstill since the "estate" attorney (who we've been told now represents the LLC) won't talk to anyone.

Since your brother was an owner of the account, he did not have to have any other owner sign to close the account. That money would by-pass probate unless the bank issued a check payable to the estate.

This mess is waaaaay beyond cyberspace. You need your OWN attorney. The executor's attorney works for the executor, not you. That's why you are not getting any info from the exector's attorney or any other attorney who is not hired by you.