Bank gave away assets

[davebo_2020]

What is the name of your state? Tennessee

This whole things is a mess. The bank gave away the assets that were in a safety deposit box without writing a table of contents or even requiring the people that picked up the contents of the safety deposit box, to even have any legal papers from the probate court. We on the other hand had the probate papers but were denied access to search for a will. The bank was notified the morning before they gave the contents of the safety deposit box to a distance relative, without even having any papers from the probate court. They went into the bank and the person working in the bank allowed them access and also allowed them to walk right out the door, with all the papers and money that was in the safety deposit box. The only form of any papers the people had that took the contents of the safety deposit box, was a clipping from the obituary from the newspaper. We were told before my grandfather died where the bank was and the safety deposit box # and that there was going to be a will in the box. And were told a substantaul amount of money would be in the box. by substantual amount we were told close to $200.000, When we went to the bank to see what there reply was to the situation the bank employee immediatley stated the conversation must stop right here and she called the banks legal represenatives. when bank employeee was ask if we could see the conents of the safety deposit box we were told. there was not one taken. The banks lawyers sent us a letter saying.." Pursuant" to Tennesse laws the bank did nothing wrong. The lawyers are claiming they have spoken to the people who have come into there bank and the people have advised them they are going to go get probate on the assets even the safety deposit box. The banks lawyers still persist that what the bank did by giving away the contents of the box that they were within the laws of tennessee. Keywords the banks lawyers used were " Pursuant". i ve never heard of a pursuant law. Like i said before we have had probate papers on the safety deposit box before all this happened and notified the bank of the probate papers. But they still gave away the box.. We feel legal procedures were not followed on this sistuation. I am just glad i dont do my banking with this bank.
My real question is.
1. Is the bank liable for giving away a safety deposit box to sumone without probate or legal papers to obtain contents of that box?
2. With the bank giving away the contents of the box and the people have took possession of it. We told there was a will in the box. we were also told the monetary value in the box. what are our options, do we go after the bank. for denying us the right to had access or denying us in whole the right to have them give the safety deposit box contents away without us even having a chance to go thru probate legally?
3. last question were having hard time finding an attorney to represent us. since this has turned into a big mess and the bank has so many lawyers it had basically intimidated every lawyer we have tried to hire to go against the bank for what they have done. Does anyone know an attorney that willing to handle this?

 

[Dandy Don]

Are YOU the official executor of the estate and are you saying that at the time the box was opened that the executor had not officially applied to be executor at the county courthouse?

Yes, bank was lax in giving the assets away--they should have known that only the executor should be allowed access. But you have a big problem--you have no way to officially prove exactly what was in the safety deposit box. Many banks procedures give privacy to the depositor and may not even have asked what he was putting in the box. Your attorney will need to look at this bank safety deposit box procedures for vulnerabilities and also to find out if the bank has records of your grandfather's visits to his box. Did grandfather leave personal records in his home that might show the balance in the box or safety deposit box receipts of his visits?

You need to be consulting with a business law attorney about this (or posting it on the business law message board) to look at case law in your state to see how this situation has been handled previously--no doubt it has happened before.

"Pursuant" is a word, not a law.

DANDY DON IN OKLAHOMA ([email protected])

 

[seniorjudge]

What is the name of your state? Tennessee

This whole things is a mess. The bank gave away the assets that were in a safety deposit box without writing a table of contents or even requiring the people that picked up the contents of the safety deposit box, to even have any legal papers from the probate court. We on the other hand had the probate papers but were denied access to search for a will. The bank was notified the morning before they gave the contents of the safety deposit box to a distance relative, without even having any papers from the probate court. They went into the bank and the person working in the bank allowed them access and also allowed them to walk right out the door, with all the papers and money that was in the safety deposit box. The only form of any papers the people had that took the contents of the safety deposit box, was a clipping from the obituary from the newspaper. We were told before my grandfather died where the bank was and the safety deposit box # and that there was going to be a will in the box. And were told a substantaul amount of money would be in the box. by substantual amount we were told close to $200.000, When we went to the bank to see what there reply was to the situation the bank employee immediatley stated the conversation must stop right here and she called the banks legal represenatives. when bank employeee was ask if we could see the conents of the safety deposit box we were told. there was not one taken. The banks lawyers sent us a letter saying.." Pursuant" to Tennesse laws the bank did nothing wrong. The lawyers are claiming they have spoken to the people who have come into there bank and the people have advised them they are going to go get probate on the assets even the safety deposit box. The banks lawyers still persist that what the bank did by giving away the contents of the box that they were within the laws of tennessee. Keywords the banks lawyers used were " Pursuant". i ve never heard of a pursuant law. Like i said before we have had probate papers on the safety deposit box before all this happened and notified the bank of the probate papers. But they still gave away the box.. We feel legal procedures were not followed on this sistuation. I am just glad i dont do my banking with this bank.
My real question is.
1. Is the bank liable for giving away a safety deposit box to sumone without probate or legal papers to obtain contents of that box?
2. With the bank giving away the contents of the box and the people have took possession of it. We told there was a will in the box. we were also told the monetary value in the box. what are our options, do we go after the bank. for denying us the right to had access or denying us in whole the right to have them give the safety deposit box contents away without us even having a chance to go thru probate legally?
3. last question were having hard time finding an attorney to represent us. since this has turned into a big mess and the bank has so many lawyers it had basically intimidated every lawyer we have tried to hire to go against the bank for what they have done. Does anyone know an attorney that willing to handle this?

Answer these questions:

Whose names were on the safe deposit box?

Who got the stuff out of the box?

 

[davebo_2020]

Dandy don..
To answer your question ... I am the executor of the estate. When the safety deposit box was taken from the bank.. People that i have spopken to seem to say that i could be liable for the safety deposit box. But myself i cant figure out how. Since i never had possesion and was even denied with my probate papers from the court house to scan for will and take contents. But one thing i think should help me.. The Banks lawyers in there own words " Pursuant to Tennessee laws our bank has done nothing wrong. They claim realtives are allowed to have access to a safety deposit box..." But there constrewing the point " access" and possesion are two different things. Sure i understand a relative may want to have contents of a box. But these people took posssesion.

Senoirjudge to answer your questions.

The box were in my grandmother and grandfather names and the safety deposit box, By the banks records have not been into by either since august of 1997. But i was told in 19 Nov 2001 by my Grandfather that there was a will in the box and a substantual amount of money he mentioned close to $200.000. My grandfather was not senile or have delusions he died from Lukemia. When he could tell me the Bank it was in and what street it was on and the # of the safety deposit box. I would say he knew what he was talking about.

As for your second question Who got the stuff out of the box.
The person that went in and had the bank to scan the box didnt sign out for the box they went into there family and got an aunt that is simple minded but able to function can barely write there name to sign the box out.

One thing i forgot to mention yesterday was.. The Bank employee was not the person that handled of probate matters for the bank .. He took it upon himself while the person was out to lunch to do it himself. But the other person that handled the probate for the bank was the one that let them scan the safety deposit box without any paper work from the probate court office. So basically was scan with just a cut out clipping from the obituarys in newspaper saying they were the relatives. As to where the money is or the will. who knows. Without the bank making a contents to send to probate is where i feel i been run over by the bank and i am left holding the bag cause i was person that filed probate on the estate. Like i said before the lawyers for the bank are in a big firm and they kinda like intimidate sum of the other lawyers in the area that i have ask to represent me. Funny even if u have money and willing to pay what they ask for up front once they get into reading the whole situation they say its to big for them. I am seeming to find out if your going to try to go against a bank with a lawsuit your gonna have hell of a time find any legal cousel to help you.

 

[seniorjudge]

Dandy don..
To answer your question ... I am the executor of the estate. When the safety deposit box was taken from the bank.. People that i have spopken to seem to say that i could be liable for the safety deposit box. But myself i cant figure out how. Since i never had possesion and was even denied with my probate papers from the court house to scan for will and take contents. But one thing i think should help me.. The Banks lawyers in there own words " Pursuant to Tennessee laws our bank has done nothing wrong. They claim realtives are allowed to have access to a safety deposit box..." But there constrewing the point " access" and possesion are two different things. Sure i understand a relative may want to have contents of a box. But these people took posssesion.

Senoirjudge to answer your questions.

The box were in my grandmother and grandfather names and the safety deposit box, By the banks records have not been into by either since august of 1997. But i was told in 19 Nov 2001 by my Grandfather that there was a will in the box and a substantual amount of money he mentioned close to $200.000. My grandfather was not senile or have delusions he died from Lukemia. When he could tell me the Bank it was in and what street it was on and the # of the safety deposit box. I would say he knew what he was talking about.

As for your second question Who got the stuff out of the box.
The person that went in and had the bank to scan the box didnt sign out for the box they went into there family and got an aunt that is simple minded but able to function can barely write there name to sign the box out.

One thing i forgot to mention yesterday was.. The Bank employee was not the person that handled of probate matters for the bank .. He took it upon himself while the person was out to lunch to do it himself. But the other person that handled the probate for the bank was the one that let them scan the safety deposit box without any paper work from the probate court office. So basically was scan with just a cut out clipping from the obituarys in newspaper saying they were the relatives. As to where the money is or the will. who knows. Without the bank making a contents to send to probate is where i feel i been run over by the bank and i am left holding the bag cause i was person that filed probate on the estate. Like i said before the lawyers for the bank are in a big firm and they kinda like intimidate sum of the other lawyers in the area that i have ask to represent me. Funny even if u have money and willing to pay what they ask for up front once they get into reading the whole situation they say its to big for them. I am seeming to find out if your going to try to go against a bank with a lawsuit your gonna have hell of a time find any legal cousel to help you.

Lots of lawyers like to go up against the big boys. Keep looking.


As for your second question Who got the stuff out of the box. The person that went in and had the bank to scan the box didnt sign out for the box they went into there family and got an aunt that is simple minded but able to function can barely write there name to sign the box out.

So you are saying that the box was in grandma and grandpa's names ONLY and when they both died, bad people in your family drug down poor ole simple auntie out of the attic and had her go to the bank and the bank folks just fell all over theirselfs giving her the stuff out of the box.

Is that right?

If it's not right, then tell me what happened. I have a little trouble getting over that simple aunt business.

 

[davebo_2020]

Senoirjudge

Its not hard to believe that sum people have simple minded aunt in the family, especially when she is the only heir that would of been next inline behind me in claiming anything. But we do have sum bad people in our family.
Yes the safety deposit box was in only grandma and grandpaw name. The relative i speak of that grabbed dear old simple minded aunt to the bank to just use her to sign it out was. Grandmaw dead sisters, daugther which would be her niece. But it still does not curtain that they did or who did go down to the bank and take sumthing out of a safety deposit box without legal papers to do so. In Tennesse first thing they probate judge makes u do is swear < that u will try to conduct a fair and honest acounting of any and all assests of the estate, Then they explain to your that u are not suppose to steal anything from the estate. If i knew i could of just went down to the bank with just the clipping from a newspaper dont u think i would of done that if it were legal?

You seem to be saying in your own words that " you are having hard time believing they drug simple minded aunt to the bank" tell u what i am serious if that dont convince you how serious i am.. I am have a hearing with a probate judge in probate court, in knoxville, Tn @ 10 am may 26 on this matter. Guess the judge doesnt like the idea that when i went back to the clerk and filed a paper stating what happened to the estate. Judge says for sum reason he cant believe that the bank let sumone just walk in and take a safety deposit box and sign for it and walk out. And there names are not even on the box to sign it out. I did find this out from the probate clerk tho.. No One i mean no one under Tennesse law can just walk into a bank with no papers and not be on the sign out card for the deposit box and walk out with it..
The reason i came here, i am trying to look for at least sum kind of help. Lawyers that i have went to say that even if the bank did what they did, And the bank never denied they gave away the safety deposit box contents without sum kind of recording of what was in the box. Thats when the lawyers came back to saying the " pursuant" stuff. I know this seems like a hard story to believe .. But believe me it has happened.
i was told by one lawyer and have have tried about 15 this one lawyer told me.. Really that not any lawyer cannot help me until after the hearing to determine if the bank has errored in there letting the box go without any legal justification for letting the box go out of the bank. when they knew sumone notified them they had probate over that box. The if the judge says he sees a problem. Then go from there.
I am just trying to get a head start on what i know is that the judge gonna say there is a problem. lawyers not refusing me cause of the situation in the case there refusing me saying that.. the banks lawyers are well know and it would take alot of time.
My whole deal is i dont wanna be responsible for sumthing that sumone else has stole or gave away. I was told when i got probate started that i would be responsible for taxs and there bills that needed to be paid. And that if anything happened to assests in the estate that were missing i am the one responsible since i would be the legal represenative.. other than the bank i have another situation arising out of this.. That i dunno what i am gonna do about. I have Tenncare which is the state of tennessee medicare asking questions. I keep directing them to the bank. Since there actually ones got me into this whole mess now of the missing assets. I guess by the time this over with maybe i wont need a lawyer but maybe a pyhcatrist.

 

[seniorjudge]

You can get a lawyer. Keep shopping. Then haul bad aunt and the gang (including the bank) into court and make them explain to the judge what happened.

Post back with results. This astounds me....

 

[BlondiePB]

You can get a lawyer. Keep shopping. Then haul bad aunt and the gang (including the bank) into court and make them explain to the judge what happened.

Post back with results. This astounds me....

This astounds me too.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

Senoirjudge

Its not hard to believe that sum people have simple minded aunt in the family, especially when she is the only heir that would of been next inline behind me in claiming anything. But we do have sum bad people in our family.
Yes the safety deposit box was in only grandma and grandpaw name. The relative i speak of that grabbed dear old simple minded aunt to the bank to just use her to sign it out was. Grandmaw dead sisters, daugther which would be her niece. But it still does not curtain that they did or who did go down to the bank and take sumthing out of a safety deposit box without legal papers to do so. In Tennesse first thing they probate judge makes u do is swear < that u will try to conduct a fair and honest acounting of any and all assests of the estate, Then they explain to your that u are not suppose to steal anything from the estate. If i knew i could of just went down to the bank with just the clipping from a newspaper dont u think i would of done that if it were legal?

You seem to be saying in your own words that " you are having hard time believing they drug simple minded aunt to the bank" tell u what i am serious if that dont convince you how serious i am.. I am have a hearing with a probate judge in probate court, in knoxville, Tn @ 10 am may 26 on this matter. Guess the judge doesnt like the idea that when i went back to the clerk and filed a paper stating what happened to the estate. Judge says for sum reason he cant believe that the bank let sumone just walk in and take a safety deposit box and sign for it and walk out. And there names are not even on the box to sign it out. I did find this out from the probate clerk tho.. No One i mean no one under Tennesse law can just walk into a bank with no papers and not be on the sign out card for the deposit box and walk out with it..
The reason i came here, i am trying to look for at least sum kind of help. Lawyers that i have went to say that even if the bank did what they did, And the bank never denied they gave away the safety deposit box contents without sum kind of recording of what was in the box. Thats when the lawyers came back to saying the " pursuant" stuff. I know this seems like a hard story to believe .. But believe me it has happened.
i was told by one lawyer and have have tried about 15 this one lawyer told me.. Really that not any lawyer cannot help me until after the hearing to determine if the bank has errored in there letting the box go without any legal justification for letting the box go out of the bank. when they knew sumone notified them they had probate over that box. The if the judge says he sees a problem. Then go from there.
I am just trying to get a head start on what i know is that the judge gonna say there is a problem. lawyers not refusing me cause of the situation in the case there refusing me saying that.. the banks lawyers are well know and it would take alot of time.
My whole deal is i dont wanna be responsible for sumthing that sumone else has stole or gave away. I was told when i got probate started that i would be responsible for taxs and there bills that needed to be paid. And that if anything happened to assests in the estate that were missing i am the one responsible since i would be the legal represenative.. other than the bank i have another situation arising out of this.. That i dunno what i am gonna do about. I have Tenncare which is the state of tennessee medicare asking questions. I keep directing them to the bank. Since there actually ones got me into this whole mess now of the missing assets. I guess by the time this over with maybe i wont need a lawyer but maybe a pyhcatrist.

EXCUSE ME, your Grandfather had Tenncare, so the estate is responsible for repaying what TN paid for his medical care. He applied for Tenncare while he had $200,000 stashed in a SDB and not in an interest bearing account? Are both your Grandparent's deceased? Have you checked through your GF papers to see if they paid legal fees, if so, that attorney may have a record of the will. Don't you think it strange that your GF would have a will and $200,000 in cash sitting around and you wouldn't know more about it. YOur posts, although long are difficult to understand. Please update us when you go to court next week.

 

[davebo_2020]

met4nzkx I ll address your questions

EXCUSE ME, your Grandfather had Tenncare, so the estate is responsible for repaying what TN paid for his medical care. He applied for Tenncare while he had $200,000 stashed in a SDB and not in an interest bearing account? Are both your Grandparent's deceased? Have you checked through your GF papers to see if they paid legal fees, if so, that attorney may have a record of the will. Don't you think it strange that your GF would have a will and $200,000 in cash sitting around and you wouldn't know more about it. YOur posts, although long are difficult to understand. Please update us when you go to court next week.
__________________
I am not an arborist.

I simply dont know every little tiny detail of grandfather business.. You dont go snooping round in other folks business. I did learn that from my grandfather. As for the Tenncare I dunno dam thing bout it.. Since i started probate they been on me.. I dunno if grandpaw or grandmaw had any dealing with Tenncare.. I was told By the County clerk for probate it was standard procedure that Tenncare would probably be getting in touch with whoever filed for probate. My grandfather didnt advertise his personal business, But i do know now that from going thru sum of the paper found in filing cabinet in the house he, Did buy alot of foreclosed homes. Bought property. The ended up selling them i even found where he one time had bought 20 unit apt building back in 1974. He sold that too.. Since then he had numerous houses and property he bought then sold. My grandparents kept to themselves, they didnt go out tell people every bit of there business not even to the family. I checked with the attorney that i found on few of his papers. But he said he couldnt find a will. Said he really didnt know my grandfather that well. But the attorney told me that in Tennessee its perfectly legal to have will left in a safety deposit box. I also checked the state of Tennessee is now in process of trying to get people to have there wills done by an attorney. As for the $200.000 in the safety deposit box. There was also good size of money found in the house. All i knew about my grandfather was he worked since he was 15 yr old, retired sum time back in the 1990. Everyone finds that there sumthing hard to understand about my post.
Its not hard to understand my post. Exactly how well do u really know anyone even if it is a relative. My grandfather was quiet man. He lived in the same house since 1959 bought paid for. So i guess for all rest those yrs he just saved his money. He didnt go on any big vacations. He bought a new car about every 8 yrs. I did know he alway paid for his cars in cash. going thru sum his paper at his house i never came upon a credit card bill. Both my grand parents are deceased.

 

[Dandy Don]

Did he have a fear of using banks? It's a shame that he wouldn't have put the money into a savings account or CD--it was surely foolish to keep that much cash on hand.

 

[GaAtty]

GaAtty

Yes, you have a case against the bank, however, I don't know how you are going to prove your claim about a will being in there. Nor do I know how you are going to prove the amount of money that was in there. It sounds like you have had wimpy lawyers. Find someone who is not a mouse. A lot of them may have said no because you did not offer to pay them enough, not because they were afraid of the bank. Banks are not that bad to be on other side, there are lots of more difficult folks to be on the other side other than banks.