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Can we sell house? or Probate first?

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iseolt

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CT.

This is in Connecticut. My mom passed away in December. She left a will. She had investments that were sold in January and given to the 3 beneficiaries (myself, brother and niece). We were told that doesn't need to go through Probate as she left beneficiaries.
She also left a house, also to be divided amongst us. My niece would like to buy the house, but we are getting conflicting advice as to whether we can sell it to her now or whether it has to go through Probate. She would essentially buy my brother and I out of our share of the house. We will be selling it to her a bit lower than market value. Maybe someone could make this clearer to us. Because she left the house (free and clear) to us, beneficiaries, does it need to go through Probate? (of course I'd really like to know why we get conflicting information! ). We are trying to get the Probate forms together and are wondering if we should hire an Attorney (who only basic has said so far how much she charges for Probate and per hour. I'm not getting a good warm feeling over that :)

Her estate is so simple:
1) leaving investments with beneficiaries named.
2) a car - which my brother will take (no loan or anything)
3) a house which has a small equity loan on it - beneficiaries listed in her will like above.
4) a College fund for a grandchild - a state run program, I believe - beneficiary listed.

I don't see why we get conflicting information.

Is this really so simple we are just seemingly making it more difficult (none of us speak 'legalese') - and I've been on many Probate sites for the state of CT. and asking questions.

As for her household bills - we are paying them. Small balances on a few credit cards - we have closed them and are paying them. The equity loan (house value over $150K and loan of 20K) will be paid until selling the house. Does the equity loan factor into being able to sell the house now *or* after Probate?

We would really like to sell the house to my niece now , but would really appreciate some insight before actually filling out the paperwork, going to Probate, etc. It seems it would be either 'yes you can' or 'no you can't until Probate is done. It confuses us that so far we've been told conflicting things.

Thank you for your time in reading this:

Issy
 


tranquility

Senior Member
Who will sign the deed of sale?

Unless there was a funded trust, you will have to go through probate for the house and, maybe, for the car as well.
 

justalayman

Senior Member
In addition, you have mentioned nothing about any bills the estate may owe. Those must be paid if there is money in the estate before anything is distributed to the heirs.
 

iseolt

Junior Member
Who will sign the deed of sale?

Unless there was a funded trust, you will have to go through probate for the house and, maybe, for the car as well.
I don't know what a funded trust is, my mom only left a will, naming the 3 of us as beneficiaries and my brother as executor.

We know the car will have to - as no beneficiary was left.

The will basically states the house would go to the three of us, each getting a third interest in the house. She did hope my niece would be able to buy it.

I didn't even really think of who would sign the deed of sale. Right now I would think my brother and I would (somehow?) sign over the house to her when she gets a mortgage for it.

Not that simple? Wow, I really really feel clueless.

So what is a 'funded trust'??? I haven't even seen that term while pouring over Probate forms.

Thanks!
Issy
 

iseolt

Junior Member
In addition, you have mentioned nothing about any bills the estate may owe. Those must be paid if there is money in the estate before anything is distributed to the heirs.
Yes I did - I said we were paying all the household (utilities, etc.) and only 3 credit cards with very small balances. Closed and paid. Since we are leaving the utilities on (until hopefully my niece moves in)...we will pay them.

The only outstanding money owed would be the equity line that we would pay when the house is sold.

thanks,
Issy
 

iseolt

Junior Member
Oh, I did forget. There is some money in savings and checking that we haven't touched yet. No bank account has been opened in The Estate of**************..

My brother just hasn't gotten around to that yet :-(

So we are paying the bills and splitting the cost between the 3 of us.

Thanks for reminding me!

Issy
 

tranquility

Senior Member
By funded trust, I meant a trust which owned the house where you were a beneficiary. That does not seem to be your situation.

You have to open probate for the house, car and any assets without a beneficiary designation. A beneficiary designation is not in a will but in the account itself.

The executor will sign the deed. You don't have an executor until you open probate.

You should not generally be commingling your funds. Open probate.
 

justalayman

Senior Member
Yes I did - I said we were paying all the household (utilities, etc.) and only 3 credit cards with very small balances. Closed and paid. Since we are leaving the utilities on (until hopefully my niece moves in)...we will pay them.

The only outstanding money owed would be the equity line that we would pay when the house is sold.

thanks,
Issy
sorry about that.

don't forget things like funeral costs and medical treatment often accompanying a death.

Your brother cannot do anything with the bank account until he is accepted as executor. That requires...yes, you guessed it... opening probate.
 

iseolt

Junior Member
You should not generally be commingling your funds. Open probate.
My brother's idea!

And I've been trying to get him to open Probate - to be fair, he does live out of state - but only about 45mins. But it's enough for him to put it off :)

So I've been (trying to) do the legwork he wants prepared when he comes down... LOL

Just a quick question - as I've been browsing all the Probate forms, FAQ's, etc. for CT., it's the 'tax forms' that have us puzzled. Plus the terminology. Can you recommend a site that explains that in a *very* non legal way so we have a hope of understand? Nothing (to me) is more frustrating that to go before someone (even an Attorney) and not understand or comprehending what they are talking about. The only thing we've heard in plain English is the cost per hour.

If I'm paying I want to understand**************.and I mean I don't want her price going up while she is explaining terminology to me and her clock is ticking away**************.

Thanks so much,
Issy
 

iseolt

Junior Member
Are monthly payments being made on the equity line?
Yes they are. It's only $50.00 per month.

My mom and dad (who died previously) had their funerals prepaid - and a bit of money was left over.

I'm sorry - I hope I didn't sound 'short' about having paid bills...sometimes I tend to rattle on and I'm trying to edit myself :)

She has a few medical bills (she died unexpectedly), but not much.

She pretty much had her affairs in order for years! The headstone was even in place...ah, Ma.

That's why we were given the impression Probate would be easy - and fast! - but I've been hearing (and reading) some 'horror stories'...but we have no quibbles amongst us as we knew what was in the will already. And she laid everything (almost) out in her will. At least she thought so.

I suppose it would be more difficult if she hadn't specified beneficiaries of the house - but it still seems so overwhelming in understanding it all.

I believe my brother is rather hoping I'm going to wake up some morning with a clear and vast comprehensive knowledge of Probate - to make it easier on him! LOL

Thanks very much for all of your time,

and advice and reminders and knowledge!

Issy
- I guess I'm very confused as to why in some cases houses with beneficiaries listed are able to sell the house (and not go thru Probate) - and when homes *have* to go thru Probate.....I feel so thick headed!
 

anteater

Senior Member
- I guess I'm very confused as to why in some cases houses with beneficiaries listed are able to sell the house (and not go thru Probate) - and when homes *have* to go thru Probate.....I feel so thick headed!
If property has been placed in a trust (to which tranquility alluded), the property does not have to go through probate. The trust document contains provisions for distribution of the property and a trust is administered privately, without court involvement unless some interested party petitions a court to get involved.

Property can also be owned jointly, in a form that has what is called right of survivorship. That right means that, when a joint owner dies, the other owner(s) becomes the owner of the property due to the way in which it was owned rather than through probate.

And about a dozen states allow for what are called beneficiary or transfer on death deeds for real property. A beneficiary or beneficiaries can be specified on the deed in the same way that a beneficiary can be designated for a retirement account or most other financial accounts. Such property would not need to be probated. However, Connecticut is not one of those states.

Most states also have abbreviated procedures for dealing with small estates, generally involving some sort of affidavit. However, most do not permit real property to be dealt with by these procedures. I do not know about CT.

Generally, other than that, probate must be opened in order to deal with the deceased's property.

Have you done a search with terms such as: Connecticut probate process

You should be able to find a number of sites with introductory material. Such as the document:

http://www.jud.state.ct.us/probate/ProbCourtYou.pdf
 
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justalayman

Senior Member
iseolt;3033804]
I'm sorry - I hope I didn't sound 'short' about having paid bills...sometimes I tend to rattle on and I'm trying to edit myself :)
Nope, my mistake.

She has a few medical bills (she died unexpectedly), but not much.
then obviously they must be paid

She pretty much had her affairs in order for years! The headstone was even in place...ah, Ma.
It would be nice if people would do this but I understand why so many don't. You have to accept the fact you are going to die to be able to do this. Many folks just don't like to think about the fact.

That's why we were given the impression Probate would be easy - and fast! - but I've been hearing (and reading) some 'horror stories'...but we have no quibbles amongst us as we knew what was in the will already. And she laid everything (almost) out in her will. At least she thought so.
given what you have posted so far, probate should be relatively easy.



I believe my brother is rather hoping I'm going to wake up some morning with a clear and vast comprehensive knowledge of Probate - to make it easier on him! LOL
keep picking anteater's brain. A wealth of knowledge in the area will be found there.
You also need to think about taxes for your mother AND her estate (from my understanding, two separate entities). There are several here with a lot of tax knowledge.





Issy
- I guess I'm very confused as to why in some cases houses with beneficiaries listed are able to sell the house (and not go thru Probate) - and when homes *have* to go thru Probate.....I feel so thick headed!
Unless a house is titled so it passes outside of probate (joint tenants with rights of survivorship) or it is owned by a trust (as others suggested) it is an asset just like money and any other property the decedent owned.
 

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