Challenge KY inheritence law?

[jromane202]

Kentucky

My mother died and left each of us three kids some money in a Transfer-on-Death account (not subject to probate). My brother put HIS share in a Transfer-on-Death account, with his estranged wife as beneficiary (still married, living apart).

This brother died and my sister-in-law got the money. This sister-in-law told us two remaining siblings that she felt we should get the money when she died, because it was our mother's legacy. This sister-in-law made plans with the investment counselor to put the money in a TOD account with us two remaining siblings as beneficiaries, but she died unexpectedly (intestate). The investment counselor even admitted that she was planning to do that.

From what I understand about Kentucky law, her siblings will split my sister-in-law's estate, including this money that my mother left to my brother. What chance do we have of getting that money?

 

[justalayman]

Right about a zero % chance. Unwritten intentions and wishes upon a star have about an equal weight in courts of law.


If your brother did not want his share to go to his wife it would have been a simple action at the bank to do so, or as simple as opening a new account with you and other sibling as tod beneficiaries. He didn't do that. The fact he did do that shows his intent. Once it became her money she had s right to do whatever she chose to do with it.

Again, with her it would be a very simple action to put the money in an account with you and remaining sibling as tod beneficiaries. It would take less than an hour to do that. Since she didn't do that, her money will be distributed as intestate law directs.

Many people placate others by telling them of their intent to do something but as with the test of a cook; the proof is in the pudding. It is the result that matters.

 

[jromane202]

Hi - thanks - do extenuating circumstances ever play into this ? My sister-in-law was grieving over my brother's death, became ill shortly after he died and never had a chance to go to the financial counselor - who even told me that she was planning to do it. Could I use that info in a suit and stand even a small chance of winning?

 

[Just Blue]

Hi - thanks - do extenuating circumstances ever play into this ? My sister-in-law was grieving over my brother's death, became ill shortly after he died and never had a chance to go to the financial counselor - who even told me that she was planning to do it. Could I use that info in a suit and stand even a small chance of winning?

How much money are we talking about?

 

[justalayman]

Hi - thanks - do extenuating circumstances ever play into this ? My sister-in-law was grieving over my brother's death, became ill shortly after he died and never had a chance to go to the financial counselor - who even told me that she was planning to do it. Could I use that info in a suit and stand even a small chance of winning?

Apparently she did have an opportunity to go to the financial advisor as you have stated there was discussion of the change of beneficiaries. It could have all been done over the phone and Internet so she didn't even have to have a in person meeting with the financial guy. Electronic signatures are valid when proper procedures are used.

But realistically, even if it was her intent the fact she did not see it as important enough to take care of before her death a court is not going to accept some statement she intended on doing it as an enforceable directive.

But to take it a bit further; had the financial advisor established an account for the money to be transferred to with the tod established? If no actions were taken all you have is a discussion. A discussion not supported by actions is nothing more than a discussion. A discussion will not get you a win in court.

 

[Zigner]

Hi - thanks - do extenuating circumstances ever play into this ? My sister-in-law was grieving over my brother's death, became ill shortly after he died and never had a chance to go to the financial counselor - who even told me that she was planning to do it. Could I use that info in a suit and stand even a small chance of winning?

No...without written instructions (ie: a will or a trust) the intestacy laws apply.

 

[jromane202]

How much money are we talking about?

The amount is approximately $200,000.

 

[jromane202]

Apparently she did have an opportunity to go to the financial advisor as you have stated there was discussion of the change of beneficiaries. It could have all been done over the phone and Internet so she didn't even have to have a in person meeting with the financial guy. Electronic signatures are valid when proper procedures are used.

But realistically, even if it was her intent the fact she did not see it as important enough to take care of before her death a court is not going to accept some statement she intended on doing it as an enforceable directive.

But to take it a bit further; had the financial advisor established an account for the money to be transferred to with the tod established? If no actions were taken all you have is a discussion. A discussion not supported by actions is nothing more than a discussion. A discussion will not get you a win in court.

She had cancer. Everything was a huge effort for her, even before she was ill. I don't think she didn't think it was important enough, she was dealing with my brother's estate, grieving over him, and didn't expect to die withing six months of my brother, like all of us who don't get around to doing things we need to do.

The account came from the same brokerage and was automatically set up upon his death; just not as a TOD. When my brother died, we both encouraged her to keep the money.

 

[justalayman]

She had cancer. Everything was a huge effort for her, even before she was ill. I don't think she didn't think it was important enough, she was dealing with my brother's estate, grieving over him, and didn't expect to die withing six months of my brother, like all of us who don't get around to doing things we need to do.

The account came from the same brokerage and was automatically set up upon his death; just not as a TOD. When my brother died, we both encouraged her to keep the money.

Within 6 months and she knew she had cancer?


Um, I think somebody was pulling your leg. That amount of time coupled with dealing with cancer would surely inspire a person to make the changes you describe. Her failure to make said changes is a pretty solid statement the account was as she intended it to be.

 

[jromane202]

Within 6 months and she knew she had cancer?


Um, I think somebody was pulling your leg. That amount of time coupled with dealing with cancer would surely inspire a person to make the changes you describe. Her failure to make said changes is a pretty solid statement the account was as she intended it to be.

Sorry if I was unclear. She did not know she had cancer until about a month before she died. She just didn't feel well and had a hard time getting herself to the doctor. By the time she got to the doctor, it was apparent that she had had it for some time.

 

[Zigner]

No...without written instructions (ie: a will or a trust) the intestacy laws apply.

Maybe you missed this, so I'm quoting myself. You are free to consult with a local estate attorney to confirm.

 

[justalayman]

Sorry if I was unclear. She did not know she had cancer until about a month before she died. She just didn't feel well and had a hard time getting herself to the doctor. By the time she got to the doctor, it was apparent that she had had it for some time.

Ok, even more urgent and no action.

If she really wanted to do this there were ways to accomplish it. The lack of action support the account remaining as it was.

It's time to let it go. It's done and over with.

 

[jromane202]

Maybe you missed this, so I'm quoting myself. You are free to consult with a local estate attorney to confirm.

Hi, I didn't miss that, and I appreciate your directness. As it happens, I know that; however, I was wondering what my chances were if I challenged it.

 

[latigo]

Kentucky

My mother died and left each of us three kids some money in a Transfer-on-Death account (not subject to probate). My brother put HIS share in a Transfer-on-Death account, with his estranged wife as beneficiary (still married, living apart).

This brother died and my sister-in-law got the money. This sister-in-law told us two remaining siblings that she felt we should get the money when she died, because it was our mother's legacy. This sister-in-law made plans with the investment counselor to put the money in a TOD account with us two remaining siblings as beneficiaries, but she died unexpectedly (intestate). The investment counselor even admitted that she was planning to do that.

From what I understand about Kentucky law, her siblings will split my sister-in-law's estate, including this money that my mother left to my brother. What chance do we have of getting that money?

Well your understanding of Kentucky law is greatly limited if not selective.

Let's just suppose that sister-in-law died childless, without a will and had but two siblings - a brother and sister - with each surviving her death.

Then assume that the laws are such as you would prefer they be allowing you to contest the brother and sister's right to succeed to the $200K by introducing parol (verbal) evidence of sister-in-law's expressions that it should pass to her late husband's siblings.

What then would prevent say her brother from offering verbal evidence that it was the deceased's expressed desire that he alone was to inherit the money and not to be shared by his sister? Or vice versa, or any one else claiming the right to inherit based on such questionable evidence? Including you making a claim to all of it!
_______________

Who would have the best "chance of getting that money"? The contestant assembling the most convincing liars!

 

[jromane202]

Well your understanding of Kentucky law is greatly limited if not selective.

Let's just suppose that sister-in-law died childless, without a will and had but two siblings - a brother and sister - with each surviving her death.

Then assume that the laws are such as you would prefer they be allowing you to contest the brother and sister's right to succeed to the $200K by introducing parol (verbal) evidence of sister-in-law's expressions that it should pass to her late husband's siblings.

What then would prevent say her brother from offering verbal evidence that it was the deceased's expressed desire that he alone was to inherit the money and not to be shared by his sister? Or vice versa, or any one else claiming the right to inherit based on such questionable evidence? Including you making a claim to all of it!
_______________

Who would have the best "chance of getting that money"? The contestant assembling the most convincing liars!

Hi - I'll try not to be offended by being called a liar, but I have testimony that the investment counselor knew of her intention to leave the money to us, because it had been originally left to her husband (my brother) by our mother.