No Spouse, No chldren. Next of Kin doesnt know if there was a will? What to do?

[rentalblind]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? ESTATE WOULD BE HANDLED IN NJ.

Grandmother's brother died a few weeks ago. She is the next of kin. as title mentions, no spouse or kids.

He was a very private person and didn't talk about personal things too often and so my grandmother is curious about his will and estate.

So I called the surrogates court in NJ and asked if probate filing was done yet? They checked and said no and I mentioned that I have no idea even if my grandmother was left in the will but that it is possible since she is his closest next of kin and they were close. The lady informed me that she has first rights??? or somethign of that sort. which I took as she has the first right to file for probate?

I will pursue this on grandmothers behalf as she wants me to but I'd hate to come up and stir something up if someone else was named to handle the affairs etc, so I am a little confused by the process.

Here is a brief background of the family situation.

Joe lived with his other sister for 50 years, He had paid a lot of the bills and when Mary died she left him without any rights to remain in the house legally. LEft the house to her daughters (which she had every right to do). JOe was upset and felt slighted. At the least she could have left him the right to live there, fortunately his remaining in the house never became an issue because 9 months later Joe dies. He was not fond of Mary's two children and did complain that they never came to help him liked they claimed they would but I wouldnt say they did nothing for him like he made it out to be at times. I think he just didnt like their personalities. Joe told my grandmother and her son that he was not leaving them a penny when he passed. Of course he may have changed his mind towards the end of his life as they were close to the house to check on him etc adn they did get hospice to care for him in his final stages.

When JOe died the niece left my grandmother out of his obituary. All it said was he was survived by many nieces and nephews. I found this odd but shrugged it off as an oversight or stressful time. After mass, only my grandmothers immediate family got lost during the precession and we were given wrong exits and turns and they went on without us. I was stressed as I was the driver and wanted my grandmother to make it there but she was ok with the situation and was greatful she saw him at the viewing.

At the luncheon and house, it was brought up to my grandmother at least 6 times about how "who would of thought she would be sole surviving sibilng" and they never would have thought she would have outlived them all (the siblings).

Alone, this all looks innocent. Coupled with their attitudes in general and the incidents, I am inclined to believe as if they are trying to hide the fact that my grandmother exists or are hoping to wait it out till she passes before filing for probate. from what i understand, nieces and nephews become next in line if no siblings.

I want to protect my grandmother's interests if she has any here but I am a little hesistant. Can anyone shed any light on the steps I should take. I feel like i should file for probate and let the courts initiate the process but If i show up with no will and there is one. I don't want to look like an idiot..... any insight would be helpful...

 

[Ohiogal]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? ESTATE WOULD BE HANDLED IN NJ.

Grandmother's brother died a few weeks ago. She is the next of kin. as title mentions, no spouse or kids.

He was a very private person and didn't talk about personal things too often and so my grandmother is curious about his will and estate.

So I called the surrogates court in NJ and asked if probate filing was done yet? They checked and said no and I mentioned that I have no idea even if my grandmother was left in the will but that it is possible since she is his closest next of kin and they were close. The lady informed me that she has first rights??? or somethign of that sort. which I took as she has the first right to file for probate?

I will pursue this on grandmothers behalf as she wants me to but I'd hate to come up and stir something up if someone else was named to handle the affairs etc, so I am a little confused by the process.

Here is a brief background of the family situation.

Joe lived with his other sister for 50 years, He had paid a lot of the bills and when Mary died she left him without any rights to remain in the house legally. LEft the house to her daughters (which she had every right to do). JOe was upset and felt slighted. At the least she could have left him the right to live there, fortunately his remaining in the house never became an issue because 9 months later Joe dies. He was not fond of Mary's two children and did complain that they never came to help him liked they claimed they would but I wouldnt say they did nothing for him like he made it out to be at times. I think he just didnt like their personalities. Joe told my grandmother and her son that he was not leaving them a penny when he passed. Of course he may have changed his mind towards the end of his life as they were close to the house to check on him etc adn they did get hospice to care for him in his final stages.

When JOe died the niece left my grandmother out of his obituary. All it said was he was survived by many nieces and nephews. I found this odd but shrugged it off as an oversight or stressful time. After mass, only my grandmothers immediate family got lost during the precession and we were given wrong exits and turns and they went on without us. I was stressed as I was the driver and wanted my grandmother to make it there but she was ok with the situation and was greatful she saw him at the viewing.

At the luncheon and house, it was brought up to my grandmother at least 6 times about how "who would of thought she would be sole surviving sibilng" and they never would have thought she would have outlived them all (the siblings).

Alone, this all looks innocent. Coupled with their attitudes in general and the incidents, I am inclined to believe as if they are trying to hide the fact that my grandmother exists or are hoping to wait it out till she passes before filing for probate. from what i understand, nieces and nephews become next in line if no siblings.

I want to protect my grandmother's interests if she has any here but I am a little hesistant. Can anyone shed any light on the steps I should take. I feel like i should file for probate and let the courts initiate the process but If i show up with no will and there is one. I don't want to look like an idiot..... any insight would be helpful...

Your grandmother is NOT the sole heir. Your grandmother had how many siblings? Each of the siblings inherits a portion -- since they are all dead, their portions are divided among their children -- if there is no will spelling out everything. Hence, someone needs to file for probate.

 

[justalayman]

NJ statute:

3B:5-4. Intestate shares of heirs other than surviving spouse or domestic partner.

3B:5-4. Intestate shares of heirs other than surviving spouse or domestic partner.

Any part of the intestate estate not passing to the decedent's surviving spouse or domestic partner under N.J.S.3B:5-3, or the entire intestate estate if there is no surviving spouse or domestic partner, passes in the following order to the individuals designated below who survive the decedent:

a. To the decedent's descendants by representation;

b. If there are no surviving descendants, to the decedent's parents equally if both survive, or to the surviving parent, except as provided in section 4 of P.L.2009, c.43 (C.3B:5-14.1);

c. If there are no surviving descendants or parent, to the descendants of the decedent's parents or either of them by representation;

d. If there is no surviving descendant, parent or descendant of a parent, but the decedent is survived by one or more grandparents, half of the estate passes to the decedent's paternal grandparents equally if both survive, or to the surviving paternal grandparent, or to the descendants of the decedent's paternal grandparents or either of them if both are deceased, the descendants taking by representation; and the other half passes to the decedent's maternal relatives in the same manner; but if there is no surviving grandparent, or descendant of a grandparent on either the paternal or the maternal side, the entire estate passes to the decedent's relatives on the other side in the same manner as the half;

e. If there is no surviving descendant, parent, descendant of a parent, or grandparent, but the decedent is survived by one or more descendants of grandparents, the descendants take equally if they are all of the same degree of kinship to the decedent, but if of unequal degree those of more remote degree take by representation;

f. If there are no surviving descendants of grandparents, then the decedent's step-children or their descendants by representation.

Based on facts presented, I believe (c) would be the first applicable section. That says that (basically) grandmothers brothers siblings would be inline to inherit OR if they are deceased, their descendants by representation (aka: per stirpes) which means the share the deceased heir would have taken is divided between their heirs.

so, if there is no will, grandmother would be entitled to a share of the net assets of the estate determined by dividing the total by the total number of siblings of the decedent. Each of the other siblings, if living, would take an equal amount. If a sibling predeceased him, the descendants of the sibling would inherit that share.

so, somebody has to file to open probate. You do not have to have a or the will to open probate. You do not have to be the holder of the will to open probate. Once probate is opened, somebody applies to be administrator or executor (whatever is applicable). Then, if appointed as such by the court, that person can seek out the possible will and see that it is entered into probate for review.

 

[Zigner]

NJ statute:



Based on facts presented, I believe (c) would be the first applicable section. That says that (basically) grandmothers brothers siblings would be inline to inherit OR if they are deceased, their descendants by representation (aka: per stirpes) which means the share the deceased heir would have taken is divided between their heirs.

No, that's not what it say:

c. If there are no surviving descendants or parent, to the descendants of the decedent's parents or either of them by representation;

This section means it goes to the siblings of the decedent. Descendants of the decedent's parents=brothers/sisters (including half-siblings)

ETA: My apologies - I misread what you were saying. In THIS situation, yes, it would go to the siblings of the grandmother (who is the decedent).

 

[Ohiogal]

Which is what I said in post 2. Except grandma is not the decedent. The dead person is.

 

[Zigner]

Which is what I said in post 2. Except grandma is not the decedent. The dead person is.

Yes, you are correct - and so is justalayman. My edit was intended to convey that And right - it's grandma's brother who passed.

 

[rentalblind]

thaNKS

Thank you all for your responses. Yeah, I never said she was sole survivor, I said she was next of kin and that the niece kept saying she was sole survivor and by that I believe she meant out of all the siblings. The court said she had first right? and by that I presumed first right to file the estate into probate... These above given facts will come into play if he did in fact die without a will, which I highly doubt. I believe he was the type of man who would of named an attorney the executor of his estate etc....

So based on the responses, it looks like I can still file to get the matter opened, and let the courts assign someone to find out all the details. I would prefer a non-family member to handle this, like a professional administer. Honestly, no one deserves this man's money or assets. I hate when people die with stuff, unless they die accidnetly or unexpectdely then I can see why you leave your stuff to someone but he knew he was dying so I hope he left it to a charity.... Family speculates at least 500k in assets. But you can never believe anyone's hype. If this is true, someone like that most likely died with a will.....

I have no personal interest in his estate but my grandmother does so I guess I can file it and get it started then back off.


If her brother had a spouse or children, I doubt she would even wonder about his estate but I can see why she wants to know.... THanks again!!!

 

[justalayman]

I have no personal interest in his estate but my grandmother does so I guess I can file it and get it started then back off.

I'm not seeing that as a possibility. Everything I have read so far states that the estate administration is conducted by an heir with each progressive level of relation being given the option and at each level, all on that level must specifically refuse to accept appointment by filing such a statement with the court. I suspect that if everybody refuses the appointment, at some point a request can be made to have the state appoint an administrator.

 

[rentalblind]

I'm not seeing that as a possibility. Everything I have read so far states that the estate administration is conducted by an heir with each progressive level of relation being given the option and at each level, all on that level must specifically refuse to accept appointment by filing such a statement with the court. I suspect that if everybody refuses the appointment, at some point a request can be made to have the state appoint an administrator.

Crap.... So does your response stand only if noone was named in will as administrative though. I believe he did leave a will but will have trouble getting it from the nieces who now legally own the house he lived in......

By the looks of it, yes my grandmother does have first right to become admin over the estate but only if no will correct???? I thought a person can name anyone they want regardless of next of kin.....

Crap crap crap. lol.... thanks layman!

 

[justalayman]

Crap.... So does your response stand only if noone was named in will as administrative though. I believe he did leave a will but will have trouble getting it from the nieces who now legally own the house he lived in......

By the looks of it, yes my grandmother does have first right to become admin over the estate but only if no will correct???? I thought a person can name anyone they want regardless of next of kin.....

Crap crap crap. lol.... thanks layman!

Is there a will? Does it name somebody as executor?

If there is a will, yes, if there is a nominee, they will be given first opportunity to be executor. If the possessors of the will do not open probate, then any interested party can open probate and ask the court to compel the presentation of any will in existence. Then, if there is a nominee, it will be addressed accordingly.

 

[rentalblind]

Is there a will? Does it name somebody as executor?

If there is a will, yes, if there is a nominee, they will be given first opportunity to be executor. If the possessors of the will do not open probate, then any interested party can open probate and ask the court to compel the presentation of any will in existence. Then, if there is a nominee, it will be addressed accordingly.

well that is the problem, I highly believe this man would of left a will but doubt the nieces will tell us unless someone from our side of the family was an heir and they have no choice... He was just too smart to not to leave a will. What I basically wanted to know and you confirmed was if my grandmother had the right to start the proceedings and let it go from there even if she had no access to the will etc..... Based on all this info. I believe this is the case. However, if those two nieces have the will and were omitted from the will, I suspect they may 1. ignore it and let it go since I found out through the surrogate there is no timeframe for filing probate or 2. destroy the will so there is none and recieve a share based on the intestate laws of (per stirpes) as was mentioned by benefit of their deceased mother. Pure speculation, I know... but you have to see the attitudes of these people. thanks again so much.....

 

[justalayman]

and let it go from there even if she had no access to the will etc...

if she "lets it go from there", it will get dropped by the state. Whomever starts this needs to continue with it either through its conclusion or until they are displaced as executor/administrator.

 

[rentalblind]

if she "lets it go from there", it will get dropped by the state. Whomever starts this needs to continue with it either through its conclusion or until they are displaced as executor/administrator.

im sorry, I don't mean to make this more complicated but I overanalyze everything too much I guess.. Ok, so if grandma or her power of attorney files to start probate, they can be temporary executor until will is furnished then if someone else was named and they accept then they assume the role..... Not dumb just slow lol....

 

[justalayman]

im sorry, I don't mean to make this more complicated but I overanalyze everything too much I guess.. Ok, so if grandma or her power of attorney files to start probate, they can be temporary executor until will is furnished then if someone else was named and they accept then they assume the role..... Not dumb just slow lol....

correct but realize that if no will is produced or the will does not nominate an exec, g-ma will continue to be representative unless she is challenged and that challenger displaces her or she resigns. If she resigns with no additional action, the case will simply set there. I do believe that if there are no "takers" for administrator, the acting admin can ask the state to assign one but not sure of how it would be applied if there is an existing rep.

and be warned; a rep or exec is going to be required to post a bond in most situations I recall reading.

 

[curb1]

Who was "Grandmother's brother's" attorney? He would possibly have a copy of the will.