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Not sure if there was a will - someone's hired an attorney 2 years later?

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Cheryn

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? NY

I'm actually asking this question for a friend. Her father passed away about two years ago, and they had been estranged for about 15 years. I've actually been trying to help her deal with personal/family issues because her mother (long divorced from her father) had passed away within a year prior, and they were estranged as well. She has been pretty torn up about not being able to mend fences, especially with her dad, before he died.

I finally got parts of the family back in contact (I've been a close friend of her and her brother for 30+ years). She was beginning to get through the emotional part, finally. But it has come to light that her uncle (father's brother) has hired an attorney, having something to do with her late father's inheritance.

She's really just hoping there was a message, a video, a note to her, or something like that. But as it turns out, her father was actually extremely wealthy. At this point, she's really not showing any interest in a possible inheritance, but the family has been seriously struggling for years (to the point of not being able to afford basic medical care and often having utilities cut off, etc.). Also, her brother (they are the only two children of the deceased) had a great career, and is now back to work after being laid off for 4 years. I believe he will recover, but he is struggling in the meantime as well.

There was nothing said to either of them about a will or inheritance after their father passed, and apparently neither of the children looked into it, either. They did receive a call from an attorney who represented their father's union about some possible funds, but I guess in trying to avoid hard feelings they never pursued it. (The brother of the deceased who has now hired an attorney was angry when they asked him for more info, so it was avoided after that.)

As far as I know, the deceased never remarried, because his family did not approve of remarriage. He did have a serious relationship with a lady, and I'm not sure if that relationship continued to his death. He was survived by two brothers, possibly a sister, nieces and nephews, and these two children as well as their children (his grandchildren).

He also had medical treatment at the end that could have accounted for considerable expenses, if he had no health insurance, though I am doubtful it could have cost the amount he was reported to have.

Sorry that was long, but I really know nothing about probate and wills, etc. and wasn't sure how much would be relevant.

The thing I am wondering is, if there was a will, wouldn't his children have been notified to be present for the reading, or at least notified if there WAS a will? Or if they were excluded, could it all have been handled without anyone telling them?

The other thing I am wondering is, if there was no will, do they need to do something to inherit from him? Or would they have been contacted by someone?

I'm also a little confused about the brother of the deceased having hired an attorney now two years after the death. Would the children of the deceased be notified of any suit he might be making against the estate?

This whole scenario is confusing to me, and I'm not sure what could be happening, or what I might suggest to my friend that she do. Family relations are of the greatest importance to her, but I do know she and her children could really benefit from being able to afford at least some medical care.

(I'm not in NY, but I'm guessing that's the law that would apply, since that is where the deceased lived.)

Thanks for any help, and I hope you'll understand that I am asking for a friend. She did ask me what all this could mean, and she doesn't have a computer or any way to get online, and doesn't know how to search for information. I told her I'd find out what I could.
 


OHRoadwarrior

Senior Member
Presumably, his estate was probated will or not, where he lived. That would be the place to start. It may have specifically excluded his children, so there was no need to notify them.
 

Cheryn

Junior Member
Presumably, his estate was probated will or not, where he lived. That would be the place to start. It may have specifically excluded his children, so there was no need to notify them.
Thank you.

I'm guessing I need the county he lived in before he died, and search online court records (if available) for his name. Perhaps that will turn up some information.

If there WAS a will, and it was presented by an executor, and the children were named, they would have been notified (I'm guessing). I see from your reply that if they were not named, they may never have been notified. I wasn't sure if it was done that way or not, so maybe his estate was already settled.

If there was no will, would someone have had to initiate the probate process? I wonder if that may have not happened, since neither of the children stepped forward. Could it be let go for two years if no one began the process? Perhaps that is why the brother of the deceased has now hired an attorney (though that actually makes no sense to me, since without a will, I'm guessing he would not stand to inherit).

Well, please forgive me for asking a completely uninformed question. Things were always laid out simply in my family when anyone has passed, and other than the occasional fight over who gets a treasured photograph (thankfully no longer an issue with the quality of digital copies) I've never had any experience with anyone dealing with this kind of thing.

To be honest, it doesn't sound quite "right" to me, but I'm just trying to help my friend. Thank you so much for the reply.
 

anteater

Senior Member
If there WAS a will, and it was presented by an executor, and the children were named, they would have been notified (I'm guessing). I see from your reply that if they were not named, they may never have been notified. I wasn't sure if it was done that way or not, so maybe his estate was already settled.
If probate is being opened, the children should receive notification, whether there is a will or not and whether they are named as beneficiaries in a will or not. And, if the uncle has retained an attorney to begin probate, the attorney should know that.

Tell them to contact the Surrogate's Court in the county in which the father resided.
 

Cheryn

Junior Member
Thank you both, very much.

The county where he resided apparently only makes land records available, and I have been unable to find online records of probate, etc. I did find a law stating that in NY, the Surrogate Court will begin the probate process.

At any rate, it seems this is likely all I can do for my friend. I do have the Surrogate court info, and will pass it along to her. Hopefully she will follow though.

I am hoping that whatever the brother of the deceased is attempting to do via an attorney won't be done without notifying the children of the deceased. I'm guessing that won't happen though. I can't find any way to figure out what is happening for her, and I know she doesn't want any hard feelings with anyone.

Attorneys who handle this sort of thing must see a lot of family drama - seems about as bad as divorce.

Thanks again, very much.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
Thank you both, very much.

The county where he resided apparently only makes land records available, and I have been unable to find online records of probate, etc. I did find a law stating that in NY, the Surrogate Court will begin the probate process.

At any rate, it seems this is likely all I can do for my friend. I do have the Surrogate court info, and will pass it along to her. Hopefully she will follow though.

I am hoping that whatever the brother of the deceased is attempting to do via an attorney won't be done without notifying the children of the deceased. I'm guessing that won't happen though. I can't find any way to figure out what is happening for her, and I know she doesn't want any hard feelings with anyone.

Attorneys who handle this sort of thing must see a lot of family drama - seems about as bad as divorce.

Thanks again, very much.
It may not happen if nobody tells the attorney that the deceased had any children. If the uncle is hoping to inherit, he might not do that.
 

Cheryn

Junior Member
UPDATE - and a question?

I hope the proper thing to do is keep the thread instead of starting a new one.

My friend called the Surrogate Court this morning. I'm not sure what the situation means.

Her father did not have a will, as far as the records of the court show. She said his "beneficiary" was his mother. (Later I asked if she meant the beneficiary of a life insurance policy, and she said "No, the person who handles everything for you when you die" so I think she may have meant executor?) And apparently he was listed the same for his mother, so they each were to handle the other's estate upon death.

His mother died a couple of years before he passed away. At that time, he sold her home and divided the estate between himself and his siblings.

So when he died, it was with his (deceased) mother still listed as the one to handle the estate, apparently? (And perhaps even listed as the one to inherit from him?)

The Surrogate Court referred my friend to the office of death records, in case she could find out about a responsible party from that office.

I'm not sure what the next step for her would be. Family members do seem to indicate that the brother of the deceased is retaining an attorney in relation to this.

I guess the most pertinent question for my friend is, what would happen if her father did leave his estate to his deceased mother? She isn't sure how long the grandmother preceded him in death, and I wasn't sure if it mattered, but it was long enough that he could/should have reasonably made other arrangements and failed to do so, apparently.

Would the inheritance fall to the grandmother's estate and be divided among her heirs? (Which the deceased himself had handled before as dividing equally among her children.) Or would that not be possible since she was already deceased, and without a will, would his inheritance fall to his children instead?

The father and grandmother both lived and died in the same county in the state of New York, and all property was held in that county, as far as anyone can determine.

Thanks for any help. Again, sorry to have to do this third-person, but my friend has no funds to consult an attorney and no ability to search online herself. Thank you all.
 

anteater

Senior Member
I had written a rather lengthy response, but encountered a major malfunction. So, I will boil it down:

1) As much as they might not wish to, the children should contact the uncle and straight out ask what is going on.

2) If he tells them to bug off or gets evasive, they should retain their own attorney. And probably petition to open probate under intestacy (no will).


As to the possibility that there is no will, the descent and distribution statutes for New York can be viewed at:

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/nycode/EPT/4/1
 

Cheryn

Junior Member
It may not happen if nobody tells the attorney that the deceased had any children. If the uncle is hoping to inherit, he might not do that.
Thank you, LdiJ. That opens a new possibility. I hadn't realized it might be that easy to "overlook" children, but it could explain what's going on. Thanks!
 

Cheryn

Junior Member
I had written a rather lengthy response, but encountered a major malfunction. So, I will boil it down:

1) As much as they might not wish to, the children should contact the uncle and straight out ask what is going on.

2) If he tells them to bug off or gets evasive, they should retain their own attorney. And probably petition to open probate under intestacy (no will).


As to the possibility that there is no will, the descent and distribution statutes for New York can be viewed at:

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/nycode/EPT/4/1
Thanks, Anteater.

I especially appreciate the link, if I can access other statutes from there, that will be even more helpful in the future. There were one or two things I wasn't positive about in there, but it gives me a lot of information.

My friend's brother was contacted by an attorney a while back regarding a possible side issue (but which could have added to the estate of the deceased), and when he asked the uncle about it, the uncle became a bit nasty and refused to answer, yes. I believe the brother dropped it at that point.

I know my friend is totally unable to retain an attorney, but if this is the sort of thing that one might take on contingency, if it does turn out the estate is still not distributed, I may be able to help her along that path. Hopefully we can find out more and be able to assess the situation. If nothing else, I will say that if she has a "battle to fight" it may actually be good for her emotionally. She tends to invest a lot of energy in standing up for others, and since losing her parents has been in an emotional place where having a purpose would be good for her. Though it may work out to the opposite, since she is very invested in mending family relations. That part all remains to be seen.

Perhaps her brother will be able to retain an attorney. He may be unwilling, from what I know of him personally, but we are friends and remain in contact, so perhaps I can urge him to do so for the sake of his sister.

Thank you SO MUCH for your help.
 

curb1

Senior Member
This "friend" better get with it, or forget it. Does she know anything about her parents? Why doesn't she pick up the phone and call the uncle? It is time to grow up and take charge. Do the things that don't cost any money first. Who gave them information about their parent's health?
 

Cheryn

Junior Member
This "friend" better get with it, or forget it. Does she know anything about her parents? Why doesn't she pick up the phone and call the uncle? It is time to grow up and take charge. Do the things that don't cost any money first. Who gave them information about their parent's health?
Thank you Curb.

It's a rather complicated situation. Yes, she knows all the pertinent information about her parents and family members, as does her brother. Without going into unnecessary personal details, she has not pursued this up until now because of some serious emotional issues, and I have been trying to help her with those.

Calling her uncle could potentially backfire - she has been estranged from family and is just now finally reconnecting with them, and this could cause a whole new flare-up. Whether it is worth the additional family discord and possible emotional distress to her, I cannot say.

If you mean to imply by putting "friend" in quotes that I am asking on my own behalf, well, not that it matters, but I can assure you I am not. She asked me about (1) finding family members by searching online and (2) what might be going on legally with what she learned about the uncle retaining an attorney, and I have done what I can to help her answer those questions as she has no internet access and does not have much experience finding anything online.

My own father is living, and when anyone in my family has died there has always been little property to divide and wishes were simply made known beforehand and followed, so there was never any real need of attorneys in this matter in my personal experience, so I knew nothing really to tell my friend and have had to learn what I could over the past few days in an attempt to help her. I appreciate all the help I have received from this board to that end.

I do especially appreciate the advice that she needs to act quickly if she plans to act at all, and do the things that don't cost any money first. I have found both pieces of advice to be especially prudent when dealing with my own legal matters in the past.

Thank you.
 
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curb1

Senior Member
I apologize. I meant nothing by "friend". It just always seems that people who aren't proactive get left in the dust on some of these matters. I think that someone like a mutual relative has to 1) inquire about probate, 2) find out if there are enough assets to get involved, and 3) make contact with the Uncle in a non-offensive way.
 

Cheryn

Junior Member
I apologize. I meant nothing by "friend". It just always seems that people who aren't proactive get left in the dust on some of these matters. I think that someone like a mutual relative has to 1) inquire about probate, 2) find out if there are enough assets to get involved, and 3) make contact with the Uncle in a non-offensive way.
Thanks Curb, I hope I didn't come across as more ruffled than I should have. :)

I know what you mean. I've failed on my own to be proactive in certain matters in the past, and learned to regret it.

I don't believe her brother wishes to pursue the matter, and it seems there is not likely to be any contact with the uncle that he doesn't take as offensive. I don't know the uncle, but it seems he has never been close with much of the family and was quite defensive and angry when the subject was brought up.

To be honest, my friend is not as much interested in any potential inheritance (seriously, I know that's probably hard to believe, and I think she SHOULD be interested in it) ... but with the rather extreme emotional factors, she has a different set of concerns. She's a bit of a fighter at heart though, which will probably help her pursue the matter and make it good for her at the same time.

She has talked to them about probate, and it seems nothing has been done, and is making inquiries about several matters. At this point, no one knows what the remaining assets were.

I thank you and everyone else who has posted here, for helping me to help her. The suggestions and information have been invaluable, since I had no idea at all where to begin.
 

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