personal representatives duties

[sammylynn]

What is the name of your state? Maine. My father just passed away a year ago and the estate is still going on. I wanted to ask a couple of questions. There are 3 trustees on the estate and i am to recieve 50%. I have 2 siblings which are to recieve 35% and 15%. Myself and the sibling to recieve 35% have been going back and forth on the value of the house which my father lived in when he passed. The house was also where i was raised and the value means nothing to me, it is more personal. My sibling was not a biological child but married into the family. This sibling was also appointed personal representative of the estate. The sibling has had 4 appraisals done on the house which range between 195,000 and 245,000. Now i would like to know how the laws might work to show a definite value on the home and how can you go about seperating the sibling from being a trustee from a personal rep? This sibling cohersed my father into writing the will as it is. It states in the will that the house is mine when it is valued and then distributed but we cant come to an agreement on the value. One more question is when the estate is finalized i am to recieve my inheritance over 15yrs and paid to me by who? I surely dont want it to be my personal representative. How could i stop this?What is the name of your state?

 

[tranquility]

A trustee is different from a personal representative. One is for the estate and one is for the trust. To remove a trustee, follow the process of the trust or take the trustee to court for violation of fiduciary duties and have removal as your remedy. The same for the personal representative with the exception you have statutes to read rather than the trust as the first method. Either will require thousands in costs from you up front and the person will get the trust/estate to pay his costs.

 

[sammylynn]

May i say again that the personal rep on my fathers estate is also a trustee. This is causing way to much confusion. If i were to try to have the trustee dropped at a personal rep i would have to prove her to be breaking the law? After the estate is finalized it is said that my personal rep is to pay my assests over 15yrs, would i also have to do that in court? Another question would be, she wants to charge for her services as the personal rep, do you know what a reasonable amount per hour would be? And do all trustees have to agree before she does come up with an amount? Not to be a bother but one more question. I now reside in the home that is in question and moved in with the first appraisal being the 195,00 at which i agreed on. Six months later she had another one which was 254,00. I then didnt agree but the personal rep (trustee) then said to pay that or the rent (which i in the end would own 50% of) or move out. Can she charge me rent? Thank you for being patient with me.

 

[tranquility]

May i say again that the personal rep on my fathers estate is also a trustee.

I understand that. However the roles as trustee and personal representative are different and you cannot try to make them the same. There are trust issues and there are estate issues.

If i were to try to have the trustee dropped at a personal rep i would have to prove her to be breaking the law?

While violating the law would probably be a breach, fiduciary duties are much broader. See an attorney.

After the estate is finalized it is said that my personal rep is to pay my assests over 15yrs, would i also have to do that in court?

I have no idea what you are talking about. I'm guessing the will funds a trust that you will be paid from. That would not go through the court.

Another question would be, she wants to charge for her services as the personal rep, do you know what a reasonable amount per hour would be?

If she is already the personal representative, the amount should already be determined. In my state there is a statutory amount if the amount is not listed in the will. I don't know the law in your state.

And do all trustees have to agree before she does come up with an amount?

The trustees have no say over the estate. The trustees may be entitled to trustee fees for administering the trust.

I now reside in the home that is in question and moved in with the first appraisal being the 195,00 at which i agreed on. Six months later she had another one which was 254,00. I then didnt agree but the personal rep (trustee) then said to pay that or the rent (which i in the end would own 50% of) or move out. Can she charge me rent?

Your agreement with the appraisal is not required unless you want to pay for the property. The property is owned by the estate (or trust). While there are exceptions (you have provided no where near enough info to determine them), generally they *must* charge you rent or they will be breaching their duty to other beneficiaries.

 

[sammylynn]

Sorry about not being clear about some of the things i was asking. I do appreciate your patience with me. The first one that i dont think i was clear on was the estate being distributed through 15yrs. In the will it states that i am to recieve my inheritance over 15yrs. That would mean after the value of the property is finalized as well. What i am not sure of is who would pay me my inheritance over the 15yrs. My sister was appointed personal rep of my fathers will but she is also a trustee, so its causing conflick. I believe she is in it for the money. So my question is when the estate is finalized, property and all who would be responsible for distributing my inheritance to me over the 15yrs? From my understanding my inheritance would be handled by the personal rep for 15yrs. Is this the case or would it be a bank of some sort? I just wasnt ready to deal with my sister for the next 15yrs her being the personal rep. If it were to be her by law, how would i stop that? Another question i had that i dont think you understood eithor was the amount the personal rep should charge. There was no agreement for what the amount would be and the will didnt state that eithor and yes she is already the personal rep? So if it differs from state to state where could i find an amount that a personal rep would charge for their services? I am having a hard time trying to understand why my sister seems to be running for the money when my father meant more to me than money. When the first appraisal came in at 195,000 i spoke with my sister who is personal rep of my fathers will, and told her that i would agree to pay that for the house. She then told me i could go ahead and move into the property because we were going to finalize the estate. I thought she was writing up the paper work and didnt hear from her for 6 months. When i did hear from her it wasnt to say things were done with she wanted to let me know that 2nd appraisal was for 245,000. I did explain to her that was a little high and why did it go up. I got no answers from her until she told me if i didnt take the 245,000 then i was to start to pay rent. And she was going to make me pay for all six of the months i lived there. I dont know if she was right or not but it sounds like she's not right. She is just in it for the money so what would i do about something like this? Thank you again for your patience. I just feel like she is dragging me through the ringer. Thank You

 

[colourfastt]

Sorry about not being clear about some of the things i was asking. I do appreciate your patience with me. The first one that i dont think i was clear on was the estate being distributed through 15yrs. In the will it states that i am to recieve my inheritance over 15yrs. That would mean after the value of the property is finalized as well. What i am not sure of is who would pay me my inheritance over the 15yrs. My sister was appointed personal rep of my fathers will but she is also a trustee, so its causing conflick. I believe she is in it for the money. So my question is when the estate is finalized, property and all who would be responsible for distributing my inheritance to me over the 15yrs? From my understanding my inheritance would be handled by the personal rep for 15yrs. Is this the case or would it be a bank of some sort? I just wasnt ready to deal with my sister for the next 15yrs her being the personal rep. If it were to be her by law, how would i stop that? Another question i had that i dont think you understood eithor was the amount the personal rep should charge. There was no agreement for what the amount would be and the will didnt state that eithor and yes she is already the personal rep? So if it differs from state to state where could i find an amount that a personal rep would charge for their services? I am having a hard time trying to understand why my sister seems to be running for the money when my father meant more to me than money. When the first appraisal came in at 195,000 i spoke with my sister who is personal rep of my fathers will, and told her that i would agree to pay that for the house. She then told me i could go ahead and move into the property because we were going to finalize the estate. I thought she was writing up the paper work and didnt hear from her for 6 months. When i did hear from her it wasnt to say things were done with she wanted to let me know that 2nd appraisal was for 245,000. I did explain to her that was a little high and why did it go up. I got no answers from her until she told me if i didnt take the 245,000 then i was to start to pay rent. And she was going to make me pay for all six of the months i lived there. I dont know if she was right or not but it sounds like she's not right. She is just in it for the money so what would i do about something like this? Thank you again for your patience. I just feel like she is dragging me through the ringer. Thank You

Ok .. we get the idea that the will states a lengthly distribution. You state your sister is also trustee ... what exactly is she trustee of?

As far as the PR's fee, if it isn't stated in the will, then it's determined by state statute subject to modification by the probate court. In this case, since the estate, according to you, will be open for 15 years that will place a burden on the PR and I would think the judge would reasonably modify upwards the usual state mandated percentage. The percentages mostly run from 2% to 7% depending on the state and the value of the estate.

As far as paying rent for living in the house: the estate owns the property and it would be a breach of the PR's fiudiciary responsibility to allow someone to live in the house without collecting rent.

 

[sammylynn]

Thanks again for answereing my questions. There are 3 trustees of the estate. Myself, my sister and a third party who is also a sister. We are all siblings and share the finalized will. The difficulty i am having is that the one sister i am having problems with is a trustee of the estate and she was appointed the personal rep. So when this is all said and done she is to recieve 35% of the inheritance. I just wanted to ask another question while i am here. When the house was appraised at 195,000 myself and the 3rd sibling agreed on the value. There were no papers signed before the PR went and had another appraisal. Is there some kind of law that states when you have 3 trustees on the will and 2 of them are ready to agree but the 3rd one is not, and the 2 trustees are still agreeing, is there a way to call it quits and finalize this will? I am hoping not to take this to court and spend all the inheritance and be left with purchacing the house, which i still would after its all said and done, but i was hoping to make this easier. I do have a lawyer who seems to not know the laws here very well. I do most of my research on my own, and this seems to be very helpful. I also cannot get any answeres out of probate court in my state. They push me away and tell me to seek council. Thank you again for your help.

 

[tranquility]

You do need to seek competent council. Your "research" will never be substantive because you refuse to use the proper "jargon" for what is happening. Words are important and precise language helps you, and others, understand the situation.

There are 3 trustees of the estate.

This is incorrect and shows you to continue to conflate estate and trust issues.

The difficulty i am having is that the one sister i am having problems with is a trustee of the estate and she was appointed the personal rep.

By this do you mean the three of you are co-trustees in the trust and your sister is the PR of the estate? By the way, who owns the house?

Is there some kind of law that states when you have 3 trustees on the will and 2 of them are ready to agree but the 3rd one is not, and the 2 trustees are still agreeing, is there a way to call it quits and finalize this will?

So, is there one personal representative or three? What does the trust say about the powers of the trustees?

The value of the house is the value of the house. You should all get an appropriate valuation. Let me point out a problem by making wild assumptions that make the facts somewhat the way you want them to be. Say the house were in the trust with the three trustees having a majority vote provision to do anything. Let's say you and sister agree to the lesser amount appraisal. Let's say you and sister agree with you buying the house for that amount and you do so. The money is placed in the trust to be distributed according to its terms. Everything done all legal like and you wipe your hands on your pants and move on with your life.

However, PR/trustee sister is angered by this. She sues *you and sister* for breach of fiduciary duties. You may win and you may lose depending on the quality of the appraisals and the reasons why they differ. Also, you have the self-dealing nature of the arraingement. Although the facts are not all in front of us, I would not be amazed if you did, in fact, lose in such a suit. You (and non-pr sister) would pay for the legal costs. You (an-prs) would pay up to three times the damages (in my state, I don't know the law in Maine) for the breach.

Get an attorney. Deal with the sister. Don't throw up a lesser appraisal, point out the value of the property. Learn the jargon and start making more precise posts so people can actuall know what is happening rather than make wild guesses about what could be happening.

 

[anteater]

I suspect that the OP means that there are 3 beneficiaries (not "trustees") named in the will.

 

[tranquility]

I suspect that the OP means that there are 3 beneficiaries (not "trustees") named in the will.

My goodness, that changes everything. I honestly didn't consider this even though, in hindsight, it makes all the rest make sense.

In that case the OP should wait for the PR to do her job and stop talking about having any kind of say about property valuation. No vote, no nothing. There is no harm to the beneficiary (from a fiduciary breach standpoint) from a too-high appraisal. The only thing which the upsets the OP is that he wants to buy the property for cheaper. That sister/PR won't let him do that is an example of performing up to the level required by a fiduciary duty, not a breach of it.

Info edit:
Although I think there is an intent to create a trust in some way.

The first one that i dont think i was clear on was the estate being distributed through 15yrs. In the will it states that i am to recieve my inheritance over 15yrs.

 

[sammylynn]

Well i guess i need to learn my legal terms, but its not like i loose someone in my life every day. So i guess we are beneficiaries, and there are 3 of us. If we were to have had a PR outside of the family i am quite sure that the PR would allow the beneficiaries to come up with their own decisions to a certain degree. Here we have the problem with the PR being a family member and a beneficiarie. The other question i asked was if it was not stated in the will who was to pay my inheritance over the 15yrs who was? I dont mind that it had to be this way, when the will was written I was of a very young age so my father didnt want that amount of money in my hands. I was under the idea that the PR was responsible for taking care of my inheritance for 15yrs. With the conflick going on right now with the PR i just was hopeing it wasnt her i had to deal with? And if the PR is allowed to come up with a value of property after for appraisals and she then chooses the highest amount i find that very selfish, but in the end the property will be mine no matter what the value. The house also right now belongs to my father until the property is settled and the will is finalized. I hope from this experience i will learn more about legal issues. Sorry for not being so knowledgeable. Thank You for your patience.

 

[tranquility]

There is nothing you can do about sister being the PR. She is not in breach of any duty by trying to get a proper valuation of the property. She does have a duty to treat each beneficiary fairly. Unless it is written in the will that you have the right to buy the property from the estate, she cannot breach that duty by having a too high appraisal.

The reason is that your desire to purchase the property and distribute money rather than a portion of ownership to the other beneficiaries is not within the estate, but outside. You would not be buying as a beneficiary but as a person. (If that makes sense.)

Sister/pr has a duty to sister, herself and to you (beneficiary) to make sure the valuation of the property is correct if she is to sell to you (person). If she does not get a fair amount, your sister (and you, but you wouldn't as you benefit) could sue her for a breach of fiducary duty.

I don't know the ramifications of a will wanting to distribute money over time. A testimentary trust from a will of the type I envision here, is the only way I see. But, what are the terms of the trust? Odds are they were not spelled out in enough detail in the will and state statutes would be important. That's why you need a lawyer, even if you weren't going to sue. He could tell you what the issues are related to the 15 year distribution were in this "trust."

You see, what are the effects of this wording in the will? Can you change the terms of the trust being the sole beneficiary? If not, can this be considered a spendthrift trust--even though it's almost assuredly not in compliance with the requirements for one? You need to get someone to read the will, word for word, who has an understanding of state law. While I believe you have little control over the valuation of the estate, you may have some say over the time of distribution.

 

[sammylynn]

Thank You for responding. I just wanted to ask what would be considered treating the beneficiaries fairly? I understand that i cannot take that position away from her but i cant figure out why she wants so much. Then again i can, she is to recieve only 35% of the inheritance and this angrers her so why not fight about the value. Let me say this the will states that there are 3 beneficiaries and the 3 are also trustees. There is a trust account and an estate account. I dont know if that makes more sence? I asked a question before that i am still not clear on. Because of the time of the will when it was written i was young, so thats why it was written to distribute my inheritance over 15yrs. It does not say who or any kind of person or organization that would give that to me. I wanted to know if it was the job of the PR or the trustees or a bank or lawyer of some sort that would do this job for 15yrs? There are a lot of things going on in this case that i am so not clear of. Like i said i have a lawyer who seems to not know much about the laws for some reason. I have a personal lawyer whom i pay out of pocket, my sister has a lawyer that represents the estate whom i am not allowed to speak to whom is paid out of the trust. How wrong is that? My sister also has access to the estate account which she transferred funds from here in the state of maine to her home town in Colorado and did not put the other 2 beneficiaries on the account. We have no idea of the amount or if its being used. I believe that this is a breach because all trustees and beneficiaries are to be notified of the comings and goings of the inheritance, or is this just another job of the PR? I am begining to wonder if my lawyer has dealings with my sister. I just want to know how i can end all of this before i and the other sibling goes through the ringer? Could you please clairify the definition of a trustee and a beneficiary? And in one of the last post the abbreviation PO was used and i am not sure what that is eithor? When the will is finalized i was told that the case would stay open for a year to make sure everything was set ok. After that year would you know if the PR's duties were complete? I do thank you again and i hope i am not making this confusing.