Please read this one (Contesting Non-Probation of Will

[Griever]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Iowa

I misplaced the other message, here is what should have been posted:

My mother and aunt went to Probate their recently deceased mothers Will.

They signed a document stating that their mothers sole property was a $200 EE Savings Bond. The document stated that there was no need to Probate the Will, to which they both signed a piece of paper stating this same information. Now we believe my Aunt is contesting the action of not probating the Will. A lawyer has contacted my mother asking for financial records for their mother. For clarification purposes, we live in Iowa, I know laws vary state to state What we do know is that she is claiming there is property left in the house that my husband and I bought from my grandmother before her passing. My question is:does she have a case, or is the document final?

 

[justalayman]

if the aunt discovered there were hidden assets, she may have a chance at re-opening the issue. When it comes to fraud, contracts are always susceptible to being invalidated.

What we do know is that she is claiming there is property left in the house that my husband and I bought from my grandmother before her passing.

what is the value of the property in question? Do you have proof of your purchase?

and since the only asset acknowledged was the savings bond, there is possible proof you did not purchase the property since whatever you paid for the property should have been part of her estate yet it apparently was not.

 

[Griever]

Missed information

Sorry, I meant to say that it was the house that we bought before she passed. The stuff inside was left there with no claim by anyone until after it was determined the Will did NOT need Probated. She is claiming it is personal belongings ( clothes, furniture, etc.) When EE talked to the lawyer that drafted the purchase it didn't say anything about anything being removed before we closed, so it was an as-is purchase. The value would not be more than $3,000-4,000

Hopefully that extra information helps.

 

[LdiJ]

Sorry, I meant to say that it was the house that we bought before she passed. The stuff inside was left there with no claim by anyone until after it was determined the Will did NOT need Probated. She is claiming it is personal belongings ( clothes, furniture, etc.) When EE talked to the lawyer that drafted the purchase it didn't say anything about anything being removed before we closed, so it was an as-is purchase. The value would not be more than $3,000-4,000

Hopefully that extra information helps.

Did grandma move out when you purchased the house or did she live with you? Did she move to another place or assisted living? Did she take what she wanted with her?

 

[Griever]

She was in assisted living.

 

[LdiJ]

She was in assisted living.

Answer the other question...its the most important one.

 

[Griever]

I believe she took what she wanted with her.

 

[justalayman]

Griever;3360301]Sorry, I meant to say that it was the house that we bought before she passed.

so what happened to all the money from the purchase of the real estate?

was grandma even mentally competent at the time?

The stuff inside was left there with no claim by anyone until after it was determined the Will did NOT need Probated.

but the decision was based on incorrect facts. So, her estate was worth at least the $200 savings bond and approx $4000 of personal property. before the decision to not probate the will, it was part of her estate and regardless of anybody claiming it, it was to be dealt with per the laws in place.

She is claiming it is personal belongings ( clothes, furniture, etc.) When EE talked to the lawyer that drafted the purchase it didn't say anything about anything being removed before we closed, so it was an as-is purchase. The value would not be more than $3,000-4,000

whoa, your grandmother was in an assisted living facility and you expected her to remove the personal property? Seriously? Given the circumstances I suspect you need to give aunt 1/2 of the value of the personal possessions. In the end she is likely to win it but even if she doesn't, the cost to defend that $2000 is likely to cost as much or more than that $2000.

 

[Griever]

The money from the sale was given to the nursing home to help pay off the debt that was owed from costs incurred while she was living there.

In regards to her mental capabilities, she was suffering from alzheimers when placed in the nursing home. She had previously, legally, assigned my mother power of attorney. Through a legal agreement my aunt and mother sold us the house and that money went to the nursing home.

No, no one expected her to remove any items. In fact, the whole purpose of my mom and aunt not claiming anything, was so that the nursing home didn't take all of her belongings that she "may" have had . Sketchy, I understand that, but against my advisement they did it anyways.

I just have a feeling now that if my aunt proceeds with saying there actually was property, they are looking at criminal charges. If she does indeed have a case, they could possibly both go to jail. I'm trying to avoid that for them. Which is why I am trying to find out if she does have a case.

 

[LdiJ]

The money from the sale was given to the nursing home to help pay off the debt that was owed from costs incurred while she was living there.

In regards to her mental capabilities, she was suffering from alzheimers when placed in the nursing home. She had previously, legally, assigned my mother power of attorney. Through a legal agreement my aunt and mother sold us the house and that money went to the nursing home.

No, no one expected her to remove any items. In fact, the whole purpose of my mom and aunt not claiming anything, was so that the nursing home didn't take all of her belongings that she "may" have had . Sketchy, I understand that, but against my advisement they did it anyways.

I just have a feeling now that if my aunt proceeds with saying there actually was property, they are looking at criminal charges. If she does indeed have a case, they could possibly both go to jail. I'm trying to avoid that for them. Which is why I am trying to find out if she does have a case.

Are we talking just about used household goods? Or are we talking about things that might have some real value?...or sentimental family value?

In all reality I think that used furniture and household goods would be considered to have been sold with the home. More personal property or more valuable property could be a different story, but not used furniture and household goods.

There is not going to be anything criminal coming out of this.

And just so you are aware, the house HAD to be sold to cover her nursing home care. That is a requirement of Medicaid. Her assets had to be liquidated to cover her care and Medicaid would only have kicked in after that money was used up.

 

[justalayman]

Griever;3360323]The money from the sale was given to the nursing home to help pay off the debt that was owed from costs incurred while she was living there.

fair enough but was the sale at the fair market value? If not, there is concern that if there was remaining debt to the nursing home they are due whatever the difference between the FMV and actual purchase price was.

In regards to her mental capabilities, she was suffering from alzheimers when placed in the nursing home. She had previously, legally, assigned my mother power of attorney

what type of POA? Was it general or specific? was the POA specified to be a durable POA or specifically not a durable POA? when was the POA created? .

Through a legal agreement my aunt and mother sold us the house and that money went to the nursing home.

Your aunt? what did she have to do with this at that point?

No, no one expected her to remove any items. In fact, the whole purpose of my mom and aunt not claiming anything, was so that the nursing home didn't take all of her belongings that she "may" have had . Sketchy, I understand that, but against my advisement they did it anyways.

so you knew there was no intent to abandon the personal property yet now you want to argue that due to the sale it is yours?

I just have a feeling now that if my aunt proceeds with saying there actually was property, they are looking at criminal charges.

so you are saying you are trying to save your aunt the possible prospect of criminal prosecution otherwise you would relinquish the property?

I think you need to let aunt worry about that


and yes, she does have a valid complaint if the existence of property other than the $200 was known to your mother and kept from your aunt...

and if that is the case, aunt doesn't have anything to worry about.

 

[justalayman]

In all reality I think that used furniture and household goods would be considered to have been sold with the home. More personal property or more valuable property could be a different story, but not used furniture and household goods.
.

with a third party not related, I would agree but in this situation, it appears it was specifically crafted to retain the property and unless it was said for the OP, then I suspect the intent was it go to the children of the decedent. I know that if I purchased a grandparents home with personal belongings in it I would believe the children would have a right to claim those things and until they specifically declined, that right would remain. If not legally, at least morally.

 

[Griever]

Nothing valuable, just sentimental. Mostly furniture is what was left, you know basic household items like tools, pots and pans, etc.

I did understand that the house needed to be sold, but I do thank you for saying so as I've explained that to people before and they didn't understand why.

The legal worries were due to the Affadavit of Indemnity that they signed saying their was no property left. Willingly lying, as they did, on that paperwork, as it dictates, is perjury.

 

[justalayman]

Nothing valuable, just sentimental. Mostly furniture is what was left, you know basic household items like tools, pots and pans, etc.

I did understand that the house needed to be sold, but I do thank you for saying so as I've explained that to people before and they didn't understand why.

The legal worries were due to the Affadavit of Indemnity that they signed saying their was no property left. Willingly lying, as they did, on that paperwork, as it dictates, is perjury.

apparently auntie isn't worried about it so you shouldn't either. Nothing is going to happen due to the minimally valued items you claim this is all about.

so, was the home purchased at fair market value? That is a bigger problem (if the sale was within 5 years of her death) than the personal property.

but perjury is not going to happen. At worst, given it is an affidavit of INDEMNITY, the signers would be liable to pay whatever money medicaid did not receive that they should have. That is what an indemnification is.

 

[Griever]

The power of attorney was I assume general.
She could make any legal decisions as she saw fit.

My aunt already went through the house, now she wants stuff from our barn. We tried to get her to go through it and she would always be too busy. It's been over a year since we bought the house.

Legally the nursing home could take all the property she is trying to claim to recoup their losses. Neither my mom nor aunt want to losee the property but if my aunt proceeds with a lawyer to claim her mother did indeed have property, they will lose all of that property.

Legally u am less concerned for my aunt, and more concerned for my mom as they both signed the paperwork stating she had now property. They knew very well that she did. This is where I am afraid they will be charged with either Perjury, Fraud, or both. Technically it looks like they defrauded the nursing home.