Ripoffs Fees Claimed in Estate Final Settlement Papers!

[Michigan Lady]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Michigan. I am an heir to a relative's estate in Michigan. I have just received the final settlement papers and the notice of the court hearing coming up. I am not in Mi. at this time, but will be present via phone during the hearing. Originally, I objected to the Personal Reps appointment as there is so much animosity in this family and did not believe the P.R., (who is the major cause of this "ill will" in the family) would work in the best interests of the heirs. To make a long story short, he was appointed anyway, and now, as I believed from the beginning, is charging HUGE P.R. fees. I also believe there is "self dealing" going on with just about every other charge claimed. I personally have handled 4 estates and know what it takes, this is a blatant ripoff! This was a small estate, less than $200k, with a house and a few bank accounts, it did not take a rocket scientist to do this! With P.R. fees, attorney, CPA and other misc. fees, the total claimed is over half of the estate. To complicate matters, another family member, (who is not an heir, their mother is), threw their hat in the ring claiming they did a lot of work for the estate to get the house together to sell. After the relative died, this "non heir" family member's mother was going to be P.R., but never was legally appointed by the Probate Court there as she changed her mind about the appointment, the other relative was that I objected to months after the relative died. These people I believe/know took every valuable thing out of the house before anyone else knew, and now they want to be paid for doing it. I do not believe anyone had the right to anything before a P.R. was legally appointed. My questions are this, what can be done about these ripoffs fees? Also, does a "not legally appointed" P.R. have the right to authorize anything regarding the estate?, I certainly wouldn't think so. This is such a ripoff on all levels, I did write a detailed letter to the Judge, my objections are noted on the court file. I am now deciding weather to hire an attorney to represent my interests, but know, I will have to absorb my own attorney fees, of which, I'll probably get nothing after all is said and done, but will benefit the other heirs. What else can I do to rectify this..

 

[anteater]

An experienced probate attorney will almost always be better at making your argument. The questions are:

1) Can you do "good enough"
2) Cost versus benefit.

The standard in Michigan is just and reasonable. You will have to have some faith that the court is going to recognize a fee grab for what it is.

Looking for something fairly compact and understandable, I found this. Last page contains discussion of the factors that the court will consider in determining reasonability.

https://www.msu.edu/~betz/estateplanning/2004%20EstatePlnning/Mich%20Bar%20Probate%20Admin.pdf

 

[Michigan Lady]

The Saga Continues!

The Estate case went to court for closure, but of course was adjourned and rescheduled because of the lawsuit claimed by "non heir" relative's claims against the estate. My objections were against the Final Settlement, Accounting, and outrageous fees being claimed on the Final Distribution, and before I knew of the "non heir" relatives claim, which came in after my objections. Through the grapevine I heard that I only have 1 week to file for my objections to stand. If I'm not mistaken, isn't it the P.R.'s job to defend this outrageous claim made by the "non heir" relative and his job to protect the estate assets? Why would my objections stated earlier not stand as stated? I'm assuming that after this claim against the estate is settled, wouldn't the P.R. and Estate attorney have to send out a new revised copy of a final settlement to all the heirs, as I am certain this outrageous claim is going to cost the estate money to defend, hence, changing the final disbursements for all the heirs? Any suggestions?……………….

 

[anteater]

Contact the court clerks' office and inquire.

 

[Michigan Lady]

Now What?

Called the court 2 times today, and was not able to speak with the court clerk I needed to talk to, was told to wait for him to call me back which now will not be until Monday. I am concerned I need to have some documents filed within a few days and if I don't get them there my claims/objections could be tossed out. I'm not in the that state right now and have to mail it in, which really puts me to the wall. From what I can tell from the file online, there is going to be a hearing regarding all matters relating to the final accounting and objections in a few weeks. Why would I have to file anything else with the court and what could the document possibly be? I don't want my original objections to be tossed out for failure to file a document in a timely matter. Any help/advice is appreciated!

 

[Zigner]

Why should you (the OP) ask anything of the clerk? It's not their job to tell you how any of this will affect the final distribution. It's not their job to advise you on any legal matters (it would be illegal for them to do so.)

You should contact an attorney in the state/county that the probate case is taking place in and ask for assistance. You can't do this yourself. Why? Because you don't know anything about it and you can't learn enough about it AND travel there to deal with it in time.

 

[anteater]

Why should you (the OP) ask anything of the clerk? It's not their job to tell you how any of this will affect the final distribution. It's not their job to advise you on any legal matters (it would be illegal for them to do so.)

You should contact an attorney in the state/county that the probate case is taking place in and ask for assistance. You can't do this yourself. Why? Because you don't know anything about it and you can't learn enough about it AND travel there to deal with it in time.

But Zig... In many (I'd guess the majority), the clerks will at least address procedural questions.

 

[Zigner]

But Zig... In many (I'd guess the majority), the clerks will at least address procedural questions.

True, but the OP's questions run beyond that of "procedural" matters.

 

[Michigan Lady]

Re: Now What?

Thank you for all your input. In response to them, my share of this estate is 1/2 of 1/4%, which after the fees stated in the Final Settlement documents claimed by P.R., for attorney, CPA, misc. fees, and "non heir" claim against the estate is well over 100k on an estate valued less than 200k. All this money is being eaten up by the "family feud". I do not believe anyone with regards to this estate did their noble best to protect the other heirs. Yes, I could hire an attorney, and go there, but what gets me is I have to pay myself for this, my entire portion plus than some can be eaten alive by attorney fees. "No fee for fees" is my understanding. I am not an idiot, I have represented myself before in other courts for other issues. I have also been a P.R. before and have helped settle 4 estates, 3 of which I did for free, (I was not an heir in 2 of them). If I prevail in my quest here, and I believe I could, every other heir will make out O.K., but I have to foot the bill. I'm almost certain I can ask for the/my attorney bills to be paid from the estate, but don't believe they will award me that request, so I lose part or all of my share, the other heirs still make out, and they're the reason this is such a mess. These people aren't going to pay my attorney fees for this, and because of my small portion, I really have to think this through. I have really racked my mind and now think I need to file a motion/discovery to see copies of bills, receipts, bank statements, cancelled checks, etc., as I have already requested them in my initial objections to the court, as this is set now for a hearing before the judge in a few weeks. I realize I'm not an attorney, but do have the right to represent myself as a US citizen. I am also aware of the fact that the court clerks cannot give legal advice, I was trying to find out exactly what happened the other day in court so I would know how to proceed. This whole thing is a mess! Any thoughts?

 

[ecmst12]

If you don't hire a lawyer, you will need to appear in person.

 

[Michigan Lady]

Estate Mailings

If I mail a letter to the judge, do I have to send a copy to every heir involved with proof of service? I have wrote a letter asking for copies of all the bills, receipts, bank statements, basically, every single item that the P.R. is claiming in final accounting. Actually, this is my second request, (estate hearing coming up in relation to the final accounting)……….any thoughts?

 

[Zigner]

If I mail a letter to the judge, do I have to send a copy to every heir involved with proof of service? I have wrote a letter asking for copies of all the bills, receipts, bank statements, basically, every single item that the P.R. is claiming in final accounting. Actually, this is my second request, (estate hearing coming up in relation to the final accounting)……….any thoughts?

My thought is that you have no clue what you are doing and absolutely MUST seek the assistance of an attorney if you want to have any chance of accomplishing your goals.




Really.

 

[Michigan Lady]

Attorney Fees

I am sorry that I seem to be annoying this forum, but, my share is very small, only 1/2 of 1/4. I can ask for the attorney fees, but probably won't get them and none of the other heirs will get on board with the attorney fees as it will diminish their portion of the estate more than already stated. I believe I have the right to represent myself as to not cause anymore huge bills to myself. Just trying, that's all……...

 

[tranquility]

I am sorry that I seem to be annoying this forum, but, my share is very small, only 1/2 of 1/4. I can ask for the attorney fees, but probably won't get them and none of the other heirs will get on board with the attorney fees as it will diminish their portion of the estate more than already stated. I believe I have the right to represent myself as to not cause anymore huge bills to myself. Just trying, that's all……...

The problem is, "mailing a letter to the judge" is not going to accomplish anything. Not a thing. Not a tiny little thing. If that is your plan, then move on. If you are serious, get an attorney. Or, see if there are some Nolo press books out there on probate and pro pers. Otherwise, you are just wasting your and the court's time. We cannot walk you through litigation. The deadline is upon you. Get serious and get an attorney or accept things as they are.

 

[ecmst12]

You do have the right to represent yourself. That doesn't mean it's a good idea if you're not able to do so competently.