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Status of CDs :Estate Asset vs non asset at death

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nowpastdue

Junior Member
What is the name of your state? FL

I am listed as beneficiary on 4 CDs belonging to my mother who will be 84 in February. The present total is $93,000 and they are growing at about $315 per month. My question is, since I am listed as beneficiary does this money come to me directly at the time of her death or are the funds considered as being part of the estate? It is her intent that I divide up the money between her 4 children. I am also the personal representative on her will. She wanted it done in this manner since it is her belief it is not part of the estate and she can see no reason to enrich an attorney who wants a percentage of the estate to probate the estate. Since there are more than a single person named in the will and the fact there is real estate involved the services of an attorney are needed. Other assets of the estate are equity of about $130,000 in her home, about $20,000 in a checking account and about $15,000 in personal property. She figures a cut of that is sufficient. If the CD money is part of the estate she wants alternative ideas as how to remove it from the estate but keep the total intact until after her death. If it is not part of the estate then everything is fine with her.
 


seniorjudge

Senior Member
Q: My question is, since I am listed as beneficiary does this money come to me directly at the time of her death

A: Yes.


Q: or are the funds considered as being part of the estate?

A: No.


Q: It is her intent that I divide up the money between her 4 children.

A: And in what document did she write this intended distribution?


Q: I am also the personal representative on her will. She wanted it done in this manner since it is her belief it is not part of the estate and she can see no reason to enrich an attorney who wants a percentage of the estate to probate the estate.

A: Then she needs to also draw up a living trust with provisions that do not conflict with the will.


Q: Since there are more than a single person named in the will and the fact there is real estate involved the services of an attorney are needed. Other assets of the estate are equity of about $130,000 in her home, about $20,000 in a checking account and about $15,000 in personal property. She figures a cut of that is sufficient. If the CD money is part of the estate she wants alternative ideas as how to remove it from the estate but keep the total intact until after her death.

A: See above.


Q: If it is not part of the estate then everything is fine with her.

A: No it is not; she has it in writing now that you get 100% but you are saying that is NOT what she wants. She has a problem and it needs to be fixed.
 

Dandy Don

Senior Member
You need to get facts so that she can make an informed decision.

Executor fee is a small percentage based on value of estate, and not an exorbitant fee that the attorney would charge. So find out what the legal rate for executor fee is in Florida from a probate attorney and then you can let her decide if this is a reasonable fee she wants to pay to take care of everything.

Yes, the money will be ALL YOURS after she dies and you don't have to distribute it with the others if you don't want. If that is not what her intent was, then she needs to contact the bank and specify that she wants to designate 4 individual beneficiaries to receive the CD money, not just 1, so they can send her a form to specify her wishes, in which she would write: John Doe gets 25%, Elly Doe gets 25%, etc. and also showing their SSN's and addresses for tax purposes.

Everything would be much simpler and less complicated if she would take the time to get a will or a trust drafted.

DANDY DON IN OKLAHOMA ([email protected])
 

nowpastdue

Junior Member
seniorjudge said:
Q: My question is, since I am listed as beneficiary does this money come to me directly at the time of her death

A: Yes.

Response: 1/2 of question answered.

Q: or are the funds considered as being part of the estate?

A: No.

Response: other 1/2 of question answered.

Q: It is her intent that I divide up the money between her 4 children.

A: And in what document did she write this intended distribution?

Response: Her instructions to me as to her wishes are not in writing
as to this distribution. All of the other distributions are included in her
will.


Q: I am also the personal representative on her will. She wanted it done in this manner since it is her belief it is not part of the estate and she can see no reason to enrich an attorney who wants a percentage of the estate to probate the estate.

A: Then she needs to also draw up a living trust with provisions that do not conflict with the will.

Response: See last item.


Q: Since there are more than a single person named in the will and the fact there is real estate involved the services of an attorney are needed. Other assets of the estate are equity of about $130,000 in her home, about $20,000 in a checking account and about $15,000 in personal property. She figures a cut of that is sufficient. If the CD money is part of the estate she wants alternative ideas as how to remove it from the estate but keep the total intact until after her death.

A: See above.

Response: See last item.


Q: If it is not part of the estate then everything is fine with her.

A: No it is not; she has it in writing now that you get 100% but you are saying that is NOT what she wants. She has a problem and it needs to be fixed.
Response: I admit to a couple of poor choices of words in my description of the particulars in this matter. One (wants) in "to enrich an attorney who wants a percentage", more precisely would be "receives". Local charges seem to be $100 per hour +5% of estate for a probate attorney. Two (needed) in
"is real estate is involved the services of an attorney are needed", more precisely would be "required". Per Florida statute and a clerk in the Orange County Florida Probate Court's office.

So, by doing it this way she (the estate)will be saving $4,650. Prior to deciding to distribute in this manner,she checked into living trusts among other avenues and decided against them.

Yes, I will be receiving 100% (of the CDs) but is with the understanding the amount be split equally 4 ways. You only have my word on it as she does but then she knows me, you don't.

As I said before is "If it is not part of the estate then everything is fine with her".

Thank you for your response.
 

nowpastdue

Junior Member
Dandy Don said:
You need to get facts so that she can make an informed decision.

Executor fee is a small percentage based on value of estate, and not an exorbitant fee that the attorney would charge. So find out what the legal rate for executor fee is in Florida from a probate attorney and then you can let her decide if this is a reasonable fee she wants to pay to take care of everything.

Yes, the money will be ALL YOURS after she dies and you don't have to distribute it with the others if you don't want. If that is not what her intent was, then she needs to contact the bank and specify that she wants to designate 4 individual beneficiaries to receive the CD money, not just 1, so they can send her a form to specify her wishes, in which she would write: John Doe gets 25%, Elly Doe gets 25%, etc. and also showing their SSN's and addresses for tax purposes.

Everything would be much simpler and less complicated if she would take the time to get a will or a trust drafted.

DANDY DON IN OKLAHOMA ([email protected])

Hello Dandy Don

Thanks for your response.

I'm not quite sure what you are referring to as an "executor fee". I am the named personal representative in her will. I will be serving without bond and will not be charging the estate for my services. At present the way things stands as I explained in my reply to seniorjudge above, the local custom here in Orlando FL,and I would expect in FL generally. is $100 an hour and 5% of the estate for a probate attorney. That is to handle the estate after the death. As I explained above also she apparently received a quote on a living trust and dismissed it for unknown reasons. She also was given the choice of naming the 4 of us as co-beneficiaries at the bank when she initially deposited the funds for the CDs. She chose not to. The several insurance policies that she has are set up that way with 25% of each policy going to each individual.
?? She has a will. She has no trust, nor apparently any interest in one. The present arrangement to us makes perfect sense to us and is at no cost. Thanks for your response.
 

seniorjudge

Senior Member
nowpastdue said:
...The present arrangement to us makes perfect sense to us and is at no cost....

And, if one of the other heirs disputes your understanding, what will you do (since you will have nothing in writing from ma)?
 

nowpastdue

Junior Member
seniorjudge said:
And, if one of the other heirs disputes your understanding, what will you do (since you will have nothing in writing from ma)?

Hello seniorjudge

In your initial response you said "she has it in writing now that you get 100%".
So it appears that you originally felt I had it in writing. What changed your mind?

We are talking about 1/4 of $93,000 or $23,250 (per share) versus that amount plus whatever that individual felt he could reasonably win over that amount in a lawsuit. The last time I sought a quote from an attorney in Orlando it was $25,000 to start a civil suit. So from a strictly monetary standpoint it doesn't look promising.

The 3 other siblings know me, or at least they think they do.

On a more realistic and simplistic note, I would place that individuals' 25% share in an interest bearing account and wait.

Remember, you don't know me.
 

Dandy Don

Senior Member
There is no protection against you keeping 100% of the monies if she does not designate separate beneficiaries, although you probably are honest enough to follow her wishes.

Did you get a fee quote from more than one attorney? Executor fee is very small and something you at least need to look into by getting a fee quote from more than one attorney, one who will tell you exactly in the law where the executor fee is quoted exactly.
 

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