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Status of property held in joint title in probate court need code/cases

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Lad

Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA
Problem: Daughter held an auto in joint tile with deceased stepgrandmother. On SSI and cannot afford vehicle. 3 sons of stepgrandmother by blood spending more in legal costs than car is worth to get title (already have it in their possession, just came and literally chained it, put club on steering wheel and took it). It is my understanding that when one of the joint tenants dies, the property passes directly to the other joint tenant and this type of property is not to be included in wills and trusts. They have spent more on legal costs than the car is worth in spite and my daughter can really use the car. The judge is new to the bench and new to probate and is having the wool pulled over his eyes by the sons' council. My daughter had one attorney that charged her $5000 and left her with a partial job done and left her with no records even after the Bar ordered them returned, the next attorney wrote one motion. The car is going to be adjudicated in a couple of weeks. Where is this in the code? It doesn't appear to be in probate? I found references to joint tenancy in civil, but what does she need to specifically present to the judge? Is there case law that interprets this specifically because I can't find a code that covers it in Civil or Probate and seminal cases that refers specifically to this type of situation i.e., property held in joint title in probate.
Thank you
 


tranquility

Senior Member
I don't believe a jointly owned car falls to the other owner on the death of one. Car titles are not joint tenants with right of survivorship. They are just co-owners.
 

Lad

Member
and vs or

thanks, the first attorney said because the car was titled "or" that created a joint property vs an "and which would be what, a tenants in common?
they are also saying that the only reason her name was on the title was for convenience and grocery trips. they are grasping at whatever they can. I told her over and over to write this down but she was stubborn and she said because my daughter was listed as co-buyer even though she put no money down and that her name was on the title.
 

justalayman

Senior Member
I'm not a Californian and sometimes do not understand their quirks. I believe this states title does transfer to the surviving owner.


Coownership Registration

4150.5 . Ownership of title to a vehicle subject to registration may be held by two (or more) coowners as provided in Section 682 of the Civil Code, except that:

(a) A vehicle may be registered in the names of two (or more) persons as coowners in the alternative by the use of the word "or." A vehicle so registered in the alternative shall be deemed to be held in joint tenancy. Each coowner shall be deemed to have granted to the other coowners the absolute right to dispose of the title and interest in the vehicle. Upon the death of a coowner the interest of the decedent shall pass to the survivor as though title or interest in the vehicle was held in joint tenancy unless a contrary intention is set forth in writing upon the application for registration.

(b) A vehicle may be registered in the names of two (or more) persons as coowners in the alternative by the use of the word "or" and if declared in writing upon the application for registration by the applicants to be community property, or tenancy in common, shall grant to each coowner the absolute power to transfer the title or interest of the other coowners only during the lifetime of such coowners.

(c) A vehicle may be registered in the names of two (or more) persons as coowners in the conjunctive by the use of the word "and" and shall thereafter require the signature of each coowner or his personal representative to transfer title to the vehicle, except where title to the vehicle is set forth in joint tenancy, the signature of each coowner or his personal representative shall be required only during the lifetime of the coowners, and upon death of a coowner title shall pass to the surviving coowner.

(d) The department may adopt suitable abbreviations to appear upon the certificate of registration and certificate of ownership to designate the manner in which title to the vehicle is held if set forth by the coowners upon the application for registration.
 

tranquility

Senior Member
I certainly made a mistake and got it backwards thinking joint ownership was an "and" and not an "or". However, that does not end the issue as title is presumptive.
Estate of Bibb, 104 Cal. Rptr. 2d 415 (2001):
II. The Rolls Royce.

The document purporting to evidence the transmutation of the Rolls Royce in this case is a computer printout entitled "DMV Vehicle Registration Information," which reflects that, as of October 5, 1995, the vehicle, which had been previously registered in Everett's name alone, was reregistered in the names of Everett or Evelyn. No signature of any party appears on the document. As with the real property, Dozier contends that the DMV printout does not satisfy the "express declaration" requirement of Family Code section 852, subdivision (a), because it does not contain language "expressly stat[ing] that the characterization or ownership of the property [was] being changed." (MacDonald, supra, 51 Cal.3d at p. 272, 272 Cal.Rptr. 153, 794 P.2d 911.) Evelyn responds that, because title to the automobile was held in joint tenancy, it is excluded from probate under Probate Code section 6600, subdivision (b)(1). Evelyn further argues that the transfer of title on the Rolls Royce is exempt from the requirements of section 852, subdivision (a), because the property was "commingled or otherwise combined" with marital property, as described in subdivision (d) of the subject statute.

Vehicle Code sections 4150.5 and 5600.5 effectively create a presumption that a vehicle "registered in the names of two (or more) persons as coowners in the alternative by use of the word `or'" is held in joint tenancy. However, the Supreme Court's "interpretation of the `express declaration' language in section 852, subdivision (a), can [also] be viewed as effectively creating a `presumption' that transactions between spouses are not `transmutations,' rebuttable by evidence the transaction was documented with a writing containing the requisite language." (Barneson, supra, 69 Cal.App.4th at p. 593, 81 Cal.Rptr.2d 726.) The court in Barneson addressed the conflict in the presumptions created by Family Code section 852, subdivision (a), and Evidence Code section 662, which provides that "[t]he owner of the legal title to property is presumed to be the owner of the full beneficial title." Barneson held that, because the Supreme Court's interpretation of section 852, subdivision (a), was based in part on a policy of "`assuring that a spouse's community property entitlements 421*421 are not improperly undermined,'" the general presumption under Evidence Code section 662 should not be used to negate the more specific requirements of section 852, subdivision (a). (Barneson, supra, at p. 593, 81 Cal.Rptr.2d 726; see MacDonald, supra, 51 Cal.3d at pp. 268-272, 272 Cal.Rptr. 153, 794 P.2d 911.) Following the principle enunciated in Barneson, the more general form of title presumption created by Vehicle Code sections 4150.5 and 5600.5 should not be used to negate the requirements of section 852, subdivision (a), which assure that a spouse's separate property entitlements are not undermined. (MacDonald supra, at pp. 268-272, 272 Cal.Rptr. 153, 794 P.2d 911; see also In re Marriage of Haines (1995) 33 Cal.App.4th 277, 301-302, 39 Cal. Rptr.2d 673 [in case of conflict, the more specific presumption of undue influence in transactions between married persons under Fam. Code section 721 prevails over the more general presumption of ownership from title under Evidence Code section 662].)

Although the DMV printout may comply with the requirements for a presumption of joint tenancy under Vehicle Code sections 4150.5 and 5600.5, there is nothing on the face of the document evidencing that the change in the form of title was "made, joined in, consented to, or accepted by" Everett, the spouse whose interest in the property was adversely affected. (Fam. Code § 852, subd. (a).) Moreover, the document does not contain a clear and unambiguous expression of Everett's intent to transfer his interest in the subject property, as required by section 852, subdivision (a). (MacDonald supra, 51 Cal.3d at pp. 271-273, 272 Cal.Rptr. 153, 794 P.2d 911; see Estate of Petersen (1994) 28 Cal.App.4th 1742, 1754-1755, 34 Cal. Rptr.2d 449 [designation of joint tenancy on account statement does not satisfy the requirement of an express written declaration pursuant to section 852, subd. (a) ].) Thus, the Rolls Royce was not validly transmuted from Everett's separate property.

We are unpersuaded by Evelyn's argument that the Rolls Royce is exempt from the requirements of section 852, subdivision (a). Subdivision (d) of section 852 provides that "[n]othing in this section affects the law governing characterization of property in which separate property and community property are commingled or otherwise combined." As discussed above, application of section 852, subdivision (a), dictates that the Rolls Royce, which was owned separately by Everett prior to his marriage to Evelyn, maintain its character as Everett's separate property. In arguing that the Rolls Royce was somehow commingled or otherwise combined with marital property, Evelyn fails to cite any law governing the characterization of commingled or combined property, under which the vehicle should be characterized as something other than Everett's separate property. Since Evelyn fails to cite any law that conflicts with section 852, subdivision (a), there is no basis to conclude that the statute is inapplicable. (See Landry v. Berryessa Union School Dist. (1995) 39 Cal.App.4th 691, 699-700, 46 Cal. Rptr.2d 119 ["When an issue is unsupported by pertinent or cognizable legal argument it may be deemed abandoned and discussion by the reviewing court is unnecessary"].)

In short, because the Rolls Royce was not validly transmuted under section 852, subdivision (a), it remained Everett's separate property. Thus, the trial court erred in excluding it from the probate estate.
However, in footnote 3 of Estate of Schreck, 47 Cal. App. 3d 693 (1975) to the question of "She also challenges the finding of fact of the trial court that at the time of the testator's death the Cadillac was owned by him and his surviving spouse as joint tenants. She claims that each of the spouses instead owned an equal undivided interest in the vehicle as shown in the first partial inventory filed in probate.[3]":
[3] We need not spend much time on this claim. The purchase order for the car that was filled out by either the testator or the salesman was in joint tenancy form and the vehicle's registration thereafter in the peculiar form of a slant line between the two names (see Veh. Code, § 4150.5) was an error made by the dealer in applying for such registration. These facts constitute substantial evidence in support of the finding of fact of the ownership of the vehicle by the spouses in joint tenancy at the time of the testator's death.
The problem will be proving a person who put up no money is a true owner of the vehicle. If the vehicle was of a certain price (I am uncertain of the whole amount or 1/2 would be appropriate to use as a reportable gift.), if the intent was to give ownership to OP their might have been a gift tax return required.
 

Lad

Member
Car in joint title

So I have the vehicle code now, and Bibb, and I think the opposing council has brought up the fact that she pt up no money but when my daughter did have an attorney, that was addressed and they dropped it. What they are claiming now is that it was only put in her name for the purpose of taking her to the doctor which she NEVER went to and buying groceries, So I have no idea how that can be presented as evidence in court, i.e., what the argument there is...donee intent? If so, what's the reply to that?
 

tranquility

Senior Member
So I have the vehicle code now, and Bibb, and I think the opposing council has brought up the fact that she pt up no money but when my daughter did have an attorney, that was addressed and they dropped it. What they are claiming now is that it was only put in her name for the purpose of taking her to the doctor which she NEVER went to and buying groceries, So I have no idea how that can be presented as evidence in court, i.e., what the argument there is...donee intent? If so, what's the reply to that?
You have the vehicle code, but Bibb says that is only a presumption. That presumption can be rebutted. One way is to show the deceased fully paid for the vehicle by clear and convincing evidence. Then, the burden would be on daughter to prove a gift.
 

Lad

Member
Cases for proeprty held in joint title - intent

An attorney on this case I am writing on told me the it is a clear manifestation of intent when the car's title says joint tenants. The opposing side would then have the burden of proving that despite the presumption of intent to create a joint tenancy, there was no such intent. Any one have any supporting case law for this?
 

tranquility

Senior Member
An attorney on this case I am writing on told me the it is a clear manifestation of intent when the car's title says joint tenants. The opposing side would then have the burden of proving that despite the presumption of intent to create a joint tenancy, there was no such intent. Any one have any supporting case law for this?
That's what Bibb stands for. There is a presumption of joint title, they must rebut it by clear and convincing evidence. If they do, the burden falls back to you.

As to the hearsay:
1260. (a) Except as provided in subdivision (b), evidence of any of
the following statements made by a declarant who is unavailable as a
witness is not made inadmissible by the hearsay rule:
(1) That the declarant has or has not made a will or established
or amended a revocable trust.
(2) That the declarant has or has not revoked his or her will,
revocable trust, or an amendment to a revocable trust.
(3) That identifies the declarant's will, revocable trust, or an
amendment to a revocable trust.
(b) Evidence of a statement is inadmissible under this section if
the statement was made under circumstances that indicate its lack of
trustworthiness.



1261. (a) Evidence of a statement is not made inadmissible by the
hearsay rule when offered in an action upon a claim or demand against
the estate of the declarant if the statement was made upon the
personal knowledge of the declarant at a time when the matter had
been recently perceived by him and while his recollection was clear.
(b) Evidence of a statement is inadmissible under this section if
the statement was made under circumstances such as to indicate its
lack of trustworthiness.
 

HomeGuru

Senior Member
An attorney on this case I am writing on told me the it is a clear manifestation of intent when the car's title says joint tenants. The opposing side would then have the burden of proving that despite the presumption of intent to create a joint tenancy, there was no such intent. Any one have any supporting case law for this?
**A: how much is the car worth? Are you asking us to do legal research for you?
 

Lad

Member
cases

sorry, I thought you could get some help with legal cases here, not intending to ask for too much or to offend. forget it. thought these would be an easy question for someone who wanted to help someone in need, so yes, I guess I was asking for help. thought that's what this site was all about.
THANK YOU TRANQUILITY!!!
 

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